Content Warning - graphic photo (added by MNHQ) Monkeys used to test WLIs.

[Decacaffeinatednow]

Behind a paywall. Sounds horrific.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15745129/Pictured-monkeys-force-fed-test-fat-jabs-Screaming-agony-pictures-expose-barbaric-cruelty-UK-laboratories-shames-weight-loss-industry.html

Yes but 80-90% of people with type 2 diabetes are over weight or obese. If people ate healthily we wouldn't need these drugs.

I'm with you OP but it looks like you really touched a nerve here.

Can't believe someone is comparing weight loss drugs to cancer drugs.

Of course the OP has touched a nerve @hotdoggies , that's what this kind of post is intended to do. It's intended to specifically pick out one group of people and target them for opprobrium because the OP judges that we are doing something wrong or inappropriate. It's not about having an issue with animal testing, it's about using that to have a go at a group of people.

@Allisnotlost1 I am wondering what your belief is based on? Any novel medication that doesn't have a known pharmacological profile would be tested on animals, that's a current legal requirement. The existing medications that are in continuing clinical trials would not be re-tested on animals for toxicity, because that has already been done.

Your risk of cancer increases with obesity - and obesity is not as simple as ‘eat healthy and we wouldn’t need drugs’ [clearly you have no understanding of human biology and how the endocrine system functions].

Reducing obesity in the general population will potentially reduce the incidence cancer and many other diseases so they are a crucial building brick in any health care system. One which will save the NHS and other state healthcare systems around the world a huge amount of money.

Pretty much ALL DRUGS, whether you approve of their uses or not, are tested on animals at some stage in their development. Either you disapprove of this clinical protocol, regardless of the medication being tested, or you don’t. You don’t get to pick and choose which diseases it’s okay to use animals for and which you can’t because of some personal moral ambivalence.

And, off we go..... Just eat less, move more, blah blah blah blah blah blah...🙄With the usual astounding ignorance about the metabolics of obesity. The same place all WLI-bashing goady threads end up.

Although this one has plumbed a new low, it's true. Emotive shock headline about animal testing when, as it has been pointed out, ALL medicines currently in use will have been tested on animals.

The Mail truly is a loathsome rag.

I absolutely hate what humans do to animals. I only use shampoo, shower gel, washing up liquid etc etc that has not been tested on animals. There are enough of these already so why keep trying to bring out new ones and keep testing on animals?

Drugs are a bit different but I thankfully do not have to take any medication and will only use pain killers if I really cannot stand the pain (luckily I have a high threshold).

Monkeys, in particular, are so like us and intelligent it's awful to think how they suffer.

Some people get cancer due to their lifestyle. Just so you know as you appear to think that this makes them less deserving of treatment.

40% of Phase I trials fail, almost 90% of the compounds entered in Phase I do not get the FDA approval due to safety or efficacy issues.
You can hate the pharma industry all you want but people who need those drugs to save or prolong their life (or make it more bearable) might have diffrent opinion.

It’s based on science - and my reasoning was more or less what you’ve said. Novel medications (which includes variations on existing ones, depending on the magnitude of the variation) are required to be tested on animals. And additional testing for side effects and interactions is also carried out (AFAIK). I’m not sure if you’re disagreeing with me based on your opinion or that you know differently.

Many serious, life-limiting conditions such as cancer, diabetes, heart disease, have lifestyle factors in the mix. Obesity isn’t some moral outlier, so singling it out as less deserving of treatment is inconsistent at best.

Obesity is recognised by WHO qualified experts as a chronic disease. That is an undeniable fact. These medication were designed to treat disease - diabetes and obesity. Whether a minority is using only for cosmetic weight loss is irrelevant, the majority are using them to improve their health and prolong their lives.

Turning up to lecture people actually living with these diseases, armed only with half-baked opinions, isn’t touching nerves it's is showcasing your own ignorance and bias. If you want a productive discussion, start by interrogating your own assumptions rather than talking down to people who know the reality of chronic disease far better than you.

Why does a poster on Mumsnet go to shock tactics to post about WLI on Mumsnet?

Perhaps we're not disagreeing at all @Allisnotlost1? Existing GLP1s would not have repeated the animal tests because of additional clinical trials to allow them to be approved for obesity as well as T2 diabetes. Any new GLP1 might need to be tested on animals for toxicity, if it is sufficiently novel, which they are likely to be. I think we are saying the same thing.

Absolutely, but it’s also the case that many people who are not diabetic and not dangerously overweight use these drugs. I don’t think that’s controversial is it? And now we know that GLP1s work for diabetes, do we need to keep producing new iterations, each of which necessitate further testing?

I can’t comment on the OP’s motives as I don’t know them but if you want to get people agitating for a (faster) end to animal testing, talking to them about drugs they use seems like a logical place to start a discussion.

Yes I think so too!

Not really. When something is posted in this way (emotive-shock title, implicit blame/judgement of WLI users for the animal testing, guaranteed to start another tiresome bunfight about the whole effing topic of WLI use) it alienates me from the poster and, by association, their cause. If there was a mute/ignore/block option on here, I would do that.

There's nothing logical in the way the OP has posted this - it's all emotion. That's not being talked to, it's being shouted at.

The fact that WLIs may be misused by people who don't qualify medically is neither the fault nor the problem to be solved of those who do qualify. Anymore than eg those who use opiates for legitimate pain relief need to justify it due to others abusing them.

Everyone is an animal lover, vegetarian or vegan until vaccination time and then it's okay for them to be tortured because suddenly, the animals aren't as important as we are...

Comical.

I get what you are saying - but, just because a minority of people abuse them/get them illegally, should the normal clinical tests and protocols be denied? Lots of people abuse painkillers (codeine addiction, suicide ideation using paracetamol) and other otc drugs (my mother had lifelong ED and died as a result, she took 70 laxatives a day for years which contributed to her death)… but because people abuse GLP1s, we should be more outraged at the use of animals in their development.

Conflating outrage at the misuse/abuse of medications (and only this one set of drugs specifically) with the separate controversial issue of animal testing during clinical trials is reductive and creates a false narrative. It’s pure media spin to bait anti WLI readers and is in no intended to instigate social outrage at animal testing or a review of humane practices.

Tabloid crap.. .loads of meds are tested on animals. This feels very much like, look at the problems fat people are causing now simply because they can't control themselves. Yawn

Do you ever take any medication OP?

So it’s wrong to take WLIs to stop being obese because they are tested on animals, but okay if you develop cancer due to your obesity, to then take anti-cancer drugs tested on animals? Can you talk me through your logic and moral reasoning here as I just can’t see it.

Yes but 80-90% of people with type 2 diabetes are over weight or obese. If people ate healthily we wouldn't need these drugs

And if people drove carefully we wouldn't need to treat people who have been injured in car crashes. And if people didn't drink excessively or take drugs, we wouldn't need addiction services. Welcome to the human condition...

Am wondering if the op is one of these jealous and resentful over the drugs poster, read the article and rushed to mumsnet thinking she’s got some massive gotcha. Didn’t even bother to read it properly and realise it’s all drugs. And it was just click bait.

it’s so dismally predictable.

Yes anyone sitting in blissfull denial that any of their medication is tested on the flowers and fairies is in for a rude awakening.

WLI are just one of millions

Oh, by the way, is OP so concerned when the same medication was tested on animals but only (at the time) given to diabetics?

Or are they only concerned since the medication was turned into WLI?

Hopefully they'll update us.

PUT THAT PARACETAMOL DOWN!!!

If you want to know more about animal research and scientific explanations of it then Understanding animal research is an excellent website that explains everything clearly and debunks myths:

Understanding Animal Research

Including the below in the in response to the 90% figure above:
The 90% myth :: Understanding Animal Research

Also whilst new versions of make up etc are not tested on animals (and legally can't be in the UK and the EU) they are still made up of various components that WERE tested on animals once upon a time.

And as someone prescribed GLPs due to my severe t2 diabetes developed at 30 because it was triggered by my pregnancy that left me using hundreds of units of insulin a day yes its been absolutely life saving for me. I think the OP also fails to understand that for many overweight people its not just a case of eat less, move more - food noise can be horrific in many people and this switches a lot it off. People who have spent years trying to lose weight but can't get through the impulse have been saved by these meds on a purely a weight loss area.

OP says ‘Behind a pay wall. Sounds horrific’… so hasn’t even read the article. 🤦🏽‍♀️