On it for life then.........😐

[Ihavesomeballs]

I've lost 11kg on Mounjaro. I wasn't obese to start with but I'm tiny, 5ft 1 inch. I'm now just in the healthy weight BMI. I stopped my 5mg dose for 3 weeks as I had to wait till payday to order my next pen. In that time I wasn't eating any more than usual but I put on 2kg. So I guess I'm on it for life......which sucks as it's bloody expensive. Anyone else??

But the fact it’s available doesn’t drive us to eat it. Trying to say it’s the foods fault is a bit odd.

The possibility exists that the sort of food we have now is impacting those with hormonal imbalances more, yes.

Its just not the same thing as saying they didn't seem to be a problem previously, and we do need to take into account that even in a society like the UK, starvation was an ever present threat until not very long ago. If, I dunno, 10% of the population in 1800 (figure made up) had a hormone imbalance that predisposed them to obesity, in some of them that would never show because they wouldn't consistently have enough access to calories.

I'm also reticent to give too much prominence to the food we eat now as a cause for obesity. It's one of them, in that it's obviously the reason some people become obese. But it isn't the only answer, and doesn't really engage with the reality that we live in a world very different to the one we evolved for. We could get rid of all the worst offending frankenfoods, and it would still be the case that most of us can access more calories than we need and will never face the periodic scarcity that we evolved for.

I don't know if I have a hormonal imbalance or not, never been tested. But I do know that I have several factors which have combined to make it harder for me to not be fat -

Genetics - going back generations you can see the pattern - my dad has a photo of his great uncle who died in the first world war and he is clearly morbidly obese despite being in the Navy at the time - I'd guess a BMI of 50+

80s diet culture - from the age of 10 I was aware that I was bigger than my friends and encouraged by both my mother and society to try and lose weight - this has lead to self-esteem issues (and therefore over eating) and an unhealthy relationship with food

Lack of exercise - my lifestyle is very sedentary - I work at a desk and need to drive most places that I go, neither of which would have applied to people a few generations ago. They had exercise built into their daily life, I have to carve out time and motivation for it

Availability of processed foods - they are far easier to obtain than in the past and offer a convenience which is hard to resist when you are time poor. And once you have introduced them into your diet they become a habit which is hard to break.

So no, it isn't just a hormonal imbalance, although that may be a factor, but there are many factors in play, most of which wouldn't have been an issue for previous generations. It is so much more complex than just a lack of motivation.

Good point about more exercise. Lack of heating too. There was just more calorie burning in day to day life. People tend to take the path of least resistance, and in 1960 the norm would've involved more walking than it does now.

@NikkiPotnick
" We could get rid of all the worst offending frankenfoods, and it would still be the case that most of us can access more calories than we need and will never face the periodic scarcity that we evolved for."

Yes this what I'm saying. People claim they can't lose weight unless they eat less than 1000 calories a day but I'm just not convinced. The amount of cars, of out of town shopping with huge car parks where no waking is required, convenience foods, delivery apps, drive-thrus etc.

I think people are eating more than they think/say and moving less than they think/say. I can admit I do, I just find it frustrating when others give endless excuses. It's hard not to be tempted when we evolved to make most of available food!

I think it's worth making that point separately to the hormone imbalance issue then. Because the fact remains that we don't even know the stats for that now, let alone in previous generations or centuries. But it's quite conceivable that Ms X in 2025 has a hormone imbalance, that was shared by a good chunk of her forebears, but they were all half starved until say 50 years before she was born and then had smoking habits.

I dont really get how the 1000 calories a day claims are an issue either? Those people aren't saying they wouldn't be able to eat more calories if they lived like their grandparents did. And if they smoked to the same degree they might not want as many either!

there have always been people who are more successful holding onto fat - and in the past, they had an evolutionary advantage. My slim DH always jokes that I would do very well on a deserted island, as I simply don't need that much food to survive, whereas he needs nutritients at short,regular intervals. But combine that with abundance of food and we can't expect that our bodies will adapt to the new situation overnight.

think people are eating more than they think/say and moving less than they think/say

I think this too. And it is very different to saying x gains more weight than y on the same food and drink intake and the exact same energy output and the exact same weight and frame.

because ultimately if you burn off more energy than you consume you then burn fat or muscle to make up the defecit. Thus making your body lighter. No one fuels a defecit with fresh air. It is humanly impossible.

however some people may have very low energy outputs, be very sedentary even though they don’t realise it, maybe walk to the car, walk to the loo, walk to the kitchen, sit down most of the day, that sort of level of sedentary, which coupled with a slow metabolism may mean they don’t need much to fuel themselves and they over estimate how much they need, and under estimate how much they consume, it is very very easy to do.

I see so many people swear blind they eat in a deficit, but can’t lose weight, on line, but they are unable to explain how they fuel the deficit if it isn’t burning fat or muscle. Where the additional energy comes from if it is not something consumed, or burning your own fat or muscle. It is simply humanly impossible to fuel a deficit with fresh air, which is the only thing left.

which means fundamentally they burn off a lot less than they think, consume more than they think, or a little of both.

I'm not sure if there is a misconception about what causes the hormonal issues but as I understand it, insulin resistance is often a result of obesity, although not always. Insulin resistance can also occur naturally and then lead to obesity, but we live in an obesogenic society that didn't exist in the same way decades ago. Leptin is another hormone that is impacted by obesity so being obese makes you more likely to stay obese. I think the takeaway is that obesity and insulin resistance are modern conditions.

I work with 3 obese people. I am overweight with a bmi of 25.5 but they call me slim and I probably am in comparison to them. But I know I need to lose weight given my family history and health issues. One is on WLI, but all 3 eat a hell of a lot though they keep saying they don’t eat much. There is constant snacking. They keep offering me but I refuse as I am seriously trying to lose weight. The one on WLI has reduced his snacking but he eats massive portions at meals times. He has lost about 4 stone even though he still eats more than I eat all day in one meal. I find the denial about the quantity of food being consumed really strange. They all also double carb their meals like garlic bread & mash at one meal. Rather than one or the other. And they walk very minimally as they say they feel tired. So I don’t see how he is going to maintain this weightloss once he finishes losing all the weight.

Yes I've definitely read that a lot of the hormonal issues are caused by bring obese in the first place.

Many many things cause hormonal issues, for me it was menopause, there are so many others, like pcos, thyroid, stress, poor sleep. It’s really ill informed to think it’s obesity.

You're more likely to get pcos or have thyroid problems if you're obese. Obesity interferes with sleep. Not saying this is true for all all cases though.

PCOS can also cause weight gain in itself.

Why don’t you just post it, it feels like you’re itching too. Go on, tell us fatties it’s all our own fault.

For the gazillionth time - I am overweight and on WLI myself.

I'm not sure why you're offended at people saying that obesity causes hormonal issues that means it's harder to lose weight and keep it off. That's the truth.

I’m not offended, I am simply pointing out there is a multitude of reasons we can have hormonal issues, this is a fact I do not understand why you’re unwilling to accept it.

I'm not sure why you're offended at me saying sometimes those hormonal issues are caused by being obese in the first place. And then it makes it harder to lose weight and keep it off. That's the truth.

Ultra Processed Food and the food companies (and fast food companies) producing food with just the right combination of fat, sugar and salt to make the food addictive - and addictive it is.

Yes that's what I think, but people don't agree.

We can argue amongst ourselves but given the scientists don’t actually know what causes PCOS it feels like a futile argument to have.

So far science has identified several factors that cause PCOs, what they can’t do right now is look at an individual and say ‘your PcOS was caused by…..’

It can be caused by:

• Genetics there are 19 different genes it could be apparently
• UPFs
• Obesity
• exposure to hormones in the womb

It doesn't take a genius to work out that it is better not to get fat in the first place. Certainly those of us who have spent most of our lives on bloody diets would be the first to agree that we'd rather never have got fat.

However, that said and done, there is a global obesity epidemic and it looks like these WLI are an incredibly useful tool. If you have been fat for years, it is highly likely that you will have dysregulated systems, could be endocrine, could be insulin / glucagon related, could be pituitary or hypothalmus, could be female hormones etc etc etc. Being fat is not good for us and fucks us up, particularly the longer we are fat for.

The WLI help redress some of the fucked up shit. They help regulate blood sugar, they help with the brain reward centres, they help with the sensation of satiety, they help reduce inflammation and so on.

It seems very likely that some people will need to stay on a dose of WLI propably for some considerable time, maybe forever - but I think it is safe to say that we don't know yet. As time goes by these drugs are only going to get cheaper as the patents expire, which is great news.

Whatever people decide to do is their own decision and certainly doesn't need a whole load of unsubstantiated claims of danger or judgement cast their way.

I read that there has been some really interesting research suggesting that being obese does muck up hormone balance and weight control. The study looked at for two groups of people at a healthy BMI, one group which had been at that BMI their whole lives and the other had been obese and lost weight.
To maintain weight at the healthy BMI, the formerly obese group had to eat 300-400 calories a day fewer than the "always at healthy BMI" group.

@MargoLivebetter
"Whatever people decide to do is their own decision and certainly doesn't need a whole load of unsubstantiated claims of danger or judgement cast their way."

I'm not making unsubstantiated claims of danger as I'm on WLI myself. And I personally feel like it's the people claiming they put on weight if they eat over 1000 calories a day that are the ones casting judgement as it smacks of 'I'm not like the rest of you fatties'.