Delicate issue of pubescent young daughter and sleeveless dress.

[Riversguidebook]

Well this is one I haven’t read before!

My daughter is almost 12 but thankfully still not self conscious enough yet to worry about leg and underarm hair. She has very dark hair, lots of it and very long, especially underarm.

Her dress is 3/4 length so she may or may not wear tights on the day too, despite the inevitable summer heat.

Her bridesmaid dress is sleeveless, and it will be too hot to wear a short sleeve bolero type cardigan in the summer.

I haven’t discussed the underarm hair with her, but should I?
As soon as one of her similar age cousins notices, she might become embarrassed and instantly self conscious, and it’s a shame because it’s kind of like the cheques in the post on this.

I remember my own mother laughing at me and calling me beardy in front of the family when she first noticed my underarm hair about the same age, and I’m trying to ensure my own daughter doesn’t suffer the same sort of humiliation.

What do you think?

Whitechoc - do your daughters agree that body hair looks awful because thst's what they've learnt?

As an aside, I work in a high school, and many girls aged 11-18 are displaying body hair now, either through choice or disinterest in it. There are a few boys who take the piss, but they aren't well respected because they also take the piss out of things like extra curricular clubs.

I feel as though education is key. If a child is educated to believe that hair is wrong, they will do so.

My DD always had dark hair and was very anxious and embarrassed about it when she was 11-12. When I found her pulling hair from her arms using her fingers I decided something needed to be done so I got her hair removal cream. She shaved under her arms and used the cream on her arms and legs. I also took her to get her eye brows threaded and upper lip as her hair was dark there too. She is 15 now and she isn’t stressed now about her arms and just shaves her pits and still gets threaded. So I am not sure on reflection whether she was being mocked at school but something triggered her anxiety around her hair at that time. I wouldn’t make a big issue with your DD about her armpit hair of she isn’t stressing. I would keep it relaxed and ask if other girls are shaving yet at school and let the conversation flow from that.

Pacmans

They are certainly aware of me prepping before getting swimsuits and bikinis out. And I’ve never been to a social gathering with body hair on show so maybe.

I think as her mum it's your job to make sure she's informed on both sides of the arguments, i.e. that hairless is the norm so people may be confused by hair there (which is not her problem but could make them say things which make her feel bad) ; but it is not essential, her body her choice etc. Sensitive subject, good luck!

I would rather be made self conscious by a loving mother (who only has my best interests at heart) than a bunch of wedding guests.

I’d discuss it with her, tell her it’s her choice what she wants to do about it, and that you can help her if she needs help with anything.

My mum never discussed anything like this with me, thankfully I went to boarding school and had some great friends help me after being embarrassed in front of some not so great friends.

Also said it’s a choice and some ppl say less sweaty smelling if you shave it.

It's a choice, but if you don't choose to shave you smell.

Why would you say this? It's not true hairy armpits smell more.

OMG I started reading this thread then despair. How are attitudes ever going to change if mums don't set example to daughters.

My mum was a naturally sexy women and hi makes very little effort with her her appearance, who still at 60 had men flirting with her, she's the lady who gets free stuff at the takeaway or men bring her presents at work.
As I grew up she sometimes shaved and sometimes didn't. She had black hair so underarm hair was quite visible.

I am whilst nothing like her, now I'm fine with going months with out shaving, now I have a daughter I won't be telling her stupid things like sweat and hair don't mix. It's definitely about it being her body and her choice. Society needs to catch up.

Body hair is just fashion and I don’t see why it’s necessary to make anyone take it off. If your dd smells, make sure she washes pits and uses anti-perspirant twice a day. I think you should ask her what her choice is and tell her the risks and costs of hair removal methods. Just explain that this is the fashion with sleeveless dresses and leave it up to her. For those that say they would forcibly remove hair (or did you mean not allow a sleeveless dress perhaps?) is that because you are worried about perverts noticing your dds growing up or just fashion reasons? As for forcibly removing pubic hair, that is just outrageous and completely unnecessary as even the hairiest person can cover up with board shorts or boy shorts. I know some religions practise full hair removal, but they generally cover up too, so I assume that we are just talking about fashion (or decency in the case of pubic hair).

@eyore123, my DM was the same and said not to worry about it. It really bothered me though and I just used a razor for armpits and legs. No other hair removal was available and pubic hair removal wasn’t a thing until the late 90s. I am very sporadic with hair removal now as no one is going to care if a middle-aged lady at the swimming pool has a stray pube.

Please don't tell your daughters you smell if you don't shave your armpits, it's honestly not true. It's just a look we're not used to as a society, I hope that we relax about it.

I don't shave mine any more, even (gasp!) when I wear a sleeveless dress or top. I've left it up to my 14yo daughter to do what she wants, she has razors and shaves some parts of her body, I couldn't tell you which ones! She knows that I think it's unfair that women are expected to remove their body hair.

As to drawing attention away from the bride by not shaving, honestly get over yourselves, no-one will care that much! (Never mind that there are two people getting married and it shouldn't be about being the centre of attention...)

I'm really surprised that people still think it is alright to shame others ( especially children) into some sort of aesthetic norm that has no bearing on health . The OP has already made it clear to her daughter that she wouldn't object to her shaving if she wants.That is enough surely. I agree with the pp who said that the hairless fashion is receding among the young. I too have noticed this and it is a positive sign that young women are feeling more autonomous about their bodies.

"She’s prepubescent "

Obviously not if she has armpit hair. She's pubescent already.

Let’s just be honest here and accept, (wrongly I believe) that there are social norms for females. Leg hair on a young teen is fine, piles of dark underarm hair is not really socially acceptable. I’m 100% fine with accepting it and changing how I think about it but I can’t change other people so I’d help my DD to the very very basic level of expectations till she could decide for herself a little older if she wants to make a point of going against convention. At 12 they are not really educated or experienced enough to make a feminist point. They would shave most likely because it’s new and daunting to them. So help her with that for now.

Would=wouldnt

Another vote for DM1209

You have supplied the kit she would need to use, she knows the style of dress let her decide. If you "suggest" she should remove it you are implicitly telling her she should remove it rather than leaving her to develop her own preferences.

Fascinated by the idea of a 12 yr old whose armpit hair is so massive that it dominates a wedding photograph

im interested in this thread, as my dd11 has armpit hair, and although i dont always shave mine, I keep checking myself over how i feel about my daughters. I feel like it makes her look really adult, and I hate feeling like people will judge her. Im pleased to hear that not everyone is doing it. Ive told her she can shave if she wants to, but she doesnt have to, and ive also told her that its a bit controversial for women. She doesnt care though. She likes it

I'm not sure she is prepubescent. If she has armpit hair she has entered puberty.

Anyway; you said you might suggest she shaves or veet for the wedding. Please please please if you are going to suggest it make it weeks in advance. If she starts doing either of those things and has a reaction or cuts herself she will have worse to hide than a few hairs.

Either have her practice in advance or not at all.

I'm really shocked at some PP attitudes of forcing children into hair removal.

OP I was a SP so DD came with me to my all over body waxing appointments (light skinned, dark hair everywhere). When she was around 7 I stopped taking her as I didn't want to influence her idea on body hair. I didn't mention shaving or waxing to her or encourage her to do it,but we are very open with each other (she tells me things that I sometimes wish I didn't hear!). When she was 12 she noticed other girls were shaving and mentioned it, we had a chat but she didn't want to do anything about her hair. She was quite happy with her long dark hair and would make jokes about it - I notice a couple of her friends are the same which I think is brilliant that they are not conforming to social expectations. She had a couple of kids say stuff but she was always able to hold her own and retort. Last summer (14) she said she wanted to wax her arms which I did for her, she liked the feeling so asked me to do her legs again which I did, followed by her armpits. She has let it grow out and says it too much hassle for a couple of weeks of smoothness. She has had a few more waxes recently (now 15) but this is when she wants it. I'm glad that she only does it when she fancies as she does it for herself as she likes how it feels. But then I know my family aren't twats and wouldn't make a child self-conscious, as a family of mainly females we all encourage her to be independent and have her own mind.

The op says pubescent not pre pubescent.

Some of the views on here aread terrifying.

Thank god I've got lads.

I made the remark because someone said pre pubescent.

I don't shave my armpits, and to be frank id be furious if someone suggested it would ruin their wedding photos.
It's armpit hair for gods sake.

I don't shave my armpits, and to be frank id be furious if someone suggested it would ruin their wedding photos.
It's armpit hair for gods sake.
Exactly! BUT as a bride i would be a bit pissed off if the photographer was zooming in on a young bridesmaids legs or armpits instead of taking normal photos!!
my 12 year old occassionaly shaves under her arms because she feels self conscious about it doing dance classes with younger girls. She hasn't attempted any leg hair removal. If she wants to, i would help her if she doesnt thats also fine.

I have 2 friends at the moment dealing with the same thing. 1 is forcing, literally forcing, her 12 year old daughter to shave between her legs before their holiday so she doesn't look scruffy 'down there'. Her daughter doesn't want to do it.

That is horrific. The child is 12. When does she plan to allow her child to have bodily autonomy?

Friend no.1 is very, very vocal with her 12 year old daughter about how people will think she is dirty, doesn't come from a good home and no one will like her if she rocks up to a holiday resort sporting body hair. She makes her 12 year old shave her legs already and has now started to stress to her that she needs to shave between her legs too as it's 'cleaner' and will look awful otherwise when she wears swimwear on holiday. Her 12 year old is rebelling (understandably) against my friend by stating that she can't force her to shower or shave. It's actually very sad to witness. Her daughter has zero confidence in herself because my friend focuses so much on her appearance. THIS is why I will never follow suit.

My other friend, light skinned child and dark hair, has assumed that her daughter WILL get bullied for having visible hair when she goes to secondary school in September. This may well be the case but it is all about how my friend equips her child to deal with it IF and when it happens. My friend says there's no point because ALL women remove their hair, again I disagree, and it is what society expects. She feels her daughter will lose out on life opportunities when she is older unless she starts teaching her now. So the life lesson there is you have to look a certain way to get ahead. Again, I will never follow suit. I tell my children to be clean, presentable and appropriately dressed for any event, that is all.

My 11 year old on the other hand is like a yeti (a clean, smiley love yetu!) and we talk about her body, my body (she sees me naked, it is normal in our home) and how different people will have different opinions. She has commented on her body hair as in 'look how much hair I have!' but she is still very, childlike in her perception of how others will view her. She wears deodorant and moisturises her skin and that is all she needs to do at this stage. She knows people can make very rude comments based on appearance, someone recently told her friend at school that because she has a moustache no one likes her and her friend should go and kill herself. My daughter stood up for her friend there and then and told the boy who made the comment that 'moustaches can be tamed and or removed, how will you ever magic up a personality, you either have one or you don't, I feel sorry for you'. While the boy laughed at my daughter and clearly wasn't bothered, my daughter was enraged and when she told me about it she said she would NEVER let someone make her feel inadequate for her choices in life (or kill herself because someone told her to) or the way that she looks, it is THIER problem not hers. I was very proud of her and grateful that she's learning the life lessons I'm trying to teach her.

I'm certain in her teens or even later at some point she will want to groom and that's ok, it will be her choice at the right time for her and I will support her. Before that point I won't push it on her at all. If she was going to be in a wedding, wearing a sleeveless dress I would let her go as she is and leave it at that. She's a child and does not need to be hairless at this stage or be made to feel that her very natural body is somehow in need of enhancement to be deemed acceptable. So far it has worked, I have a settled, confident, strong minded and caring little girl. Long may it continue.

@Whitechocandraspberry
I’m bringing my kids up to be happy with their bodies. Girls will not be going about with armpit hair or elsewhere untrimmed in s bikini or the likes. What they do as an adult is up to them but I wouldn’t be on a sunlounger next to them if they were hairy. Also wouldn’t be doing the YMCA with them at a wedding if they had hairy pits!!! Would sit at a separate table

This is a complete oxymoron. How are you bringing your children up to be happy with their bodies but then forcing your ideals about body hair onto them, so much so that you would sit at a separate table or not be on a sun lounger next to them?!!?

I would not want my developing female child to be in a bikini on holiday, all hairless for men to notice her, not AT ALL. I know my developing female hairy child in a bikini would more than likely slip below that radar.

Then you have a common theme on sites such as this where adult females state that any man who prefers a woman with no hair between her legs is clearly sexually into young girls however, we are telling our young daughters that this is what is expected of them.

My mind boggles!!!