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Sometimes I feel like sobbing with despair that my 2yo DS won't eat enough :-( LONG!!

204 replies

Dalrymps · 01/10/2009 11:58

This is LONG so appologies. I just feel I need to write it all down as I don't want to go over it with DH again as it upsets him just as much as me.

My ds has been difficult to feed both milk and food since he was born, I have posted about this before.

I had a period of depression which I recieved some couselling for and had antidepressants for a few months but decided against them.

It's really complicated and there are a lot of factors to consider. He is 9th centile for height which is fine, he was born 9th centile. His weight gain slowed down at 8 weeks old and went slowly off the bottom of the chart. We were referred to paediatrician and dietician (along with lots of other people who gave advice on feeding him, none of which worked).

The paediatrician believes he is perfectly healthy and there is no physical reason for his slow weight gain apart from the fact he doesn't take in enough calories generally.

The dietician's main aim is to get his weight to match his height (centile wise) so that if he were to become ill he would have some 'spare' to fall back on and wouldn't become to underweight.

The dietician prescribed him SMA high energy milk when he was under a year old and his weight picked up a bit but then slowed again. Once he was a year old she changed his milk to a higher calorie one called paediasure plus, this made him completely loose the tiny bit of interest he had in food and he would vomit on average one of his 4 bottles back up again each day, he also had very runnny poo's (all not usual for him). After 2 weeks of him hardly eating a scrap of food on this milk we decided to mix it half and half with his ols SMA and he stopped vomiting, poo's we ok again and he ate a little.

He was breast fed when younger and I had a lot of problems but he bascially ended up being mix fed till 5 months when he refused to bf anymore and went completely on to the aptamil.

He was late to sit unadied and has been quite late with getting his teeth. Hw will be 2 on 30th Oct and still only has 8 teeth (at the front) and one molar coming through.

It took ages to get him off smooth jars then ages to get him off lumpy jars. Feeding him has been the haerdest, most frustrating thing I have ever had to do. To feed him jars he required constant distractions (eg toys, books). He took ages to become interested in just eating bitd of our food and for ages would just chuck them on the floor or eat a tiny bit then leave it.

We are now at the stage where we give him fromage frais for breakfast (won't eat cereal or weetabix or readybrek), I have to distract him with a magazine or video's off my phone to get him to eat the fromage frais otherwise not one single spoon will be accepted.

Then he gets some sort of sandwich for lunch (philidelphia,tuna,cheese, egg etc) and some quavers and bits of cheese that he likes to eat. He usually takes about 2 bite of the sandwich at lunch if we're lucky then eats a bit of cheese and about half a bag of quavers. I then have to distract him (again!) to get him to eat a high cal pudding such as custard or more fomage frais or ice cream etc

Tea is bits of ours cut up which has varying success, sometimes he eats quite a bit (10 bites max) and sometimes hardly a scrap. Pudding is the same as lunchtime, high cal, spoon fed. DH usually does tea to give me a break from the feeding although I am there also as we all eat together.

He has 4 4oz bottles of milk a day as he won't take more than 4 oz a bottle ( I would love to be able to give him 2 8oz bottles or even 3 5 oz). He won't take the milk from a cup although he can drink prefectly well from a cup and he has his juice in one.

The dietician has recently also prescribed him some high calorie powder to add to his milk or food. He refused point blank to eat it in his food. I don't blame him as it was grainy and didn't dissolve very well. We therefor add it to his last two bottles of the day as to not affect his appetite during the day.

Recently we ran out of the higher energy milk temporarily (paediasure plus) and had to give him just the SMA for a week or so whilst we waited for the prescription. Ds's interest in food increased noticabily when he was on the SMA alone and he ate slightly more than when he has the paediasure mixed in. I have always believed from the begining that the paediasure didn't help matters. The dietician said to see how he is off it for a few more weeks and if still the same she will put him on a less calorie dense paediasure that is more suitable nutritionally for his age than the SMA.

I'm a little worried that changing him milk again will have some sort of affect on his eating, changing anything usually does. I'm also concerned that even though his appetite is better off the paediasure he still doesn't eat a whole lot more, just seems more willing to eat at all iyswim so he might not make up the calorie difference.

The main problem has always been the amounts he eats, he is quite good at trying a variety of foods if in the right mood but just looses interest very quickly. He just doesn't seem to get he has to eat a lot to grow, it's as if he's just not hungry.

When we saw the dietician the other day she made some 'helpful' suggestions on ways to encourage him to eat. She suggested reward charts/stickers for eating a bite of something or another page of his story for eating such and such. Thing is i'm pretty certian he is too young to understand this concept yet, we have tried over the last few days and he just doesn't seem to get what we're on about?!

I have watched many episodes of 'the house of tiny tearaways' to try and get answers on feeding problems. I have taken away from this that anxiety is the enemy. We spend each mealtime trying to be as relaxed as possible and basically just let him get on with playing with his food whilst we chat amongst ourselves and occaionally to him. We give him gentle praise when he eats something and clear his food away when he finally starts throwing it on the floor. We don't put too much on his tray and we always offer something we know he likes/somehthing familiar and something else for him to try. I don't know what more we can do?!

This is what has brought me to write this all down. I feel that everytime we see the dietician she makes suggestions on ways to get him to eat or things to feed him that are high calorie. I always come away from the appointments with renewed hope that we have new ideas to try and desperately hope that one of these ideas will work. Then wht happens is I get back to reality at home, try the suggestions and they don't work. This makes me sink even lower and makes me feel even more defeated and helpless than before . I always end up feeling so sad to the point that I just feel like going somewhere ds can't see me and sobbing my heart out.

We have tried so much, so many tactics and ideas over the months but the daily grind of having to feed him and progress being so painfully slow just gets me down. I try not to think about it most of the time and try to remain positive butif I stop to think about it then I just have massive feelings of hopelessness. I feel like i'm letting him down, I don't know why he won't eat more, I can't help him to eat more cause nothing works and nobody, not even the many professinals we have seen have any answers of ideas that can help us.

I don't want him to be on 2 types of high cal milk and high cal powder. I don't want to try to constantly feed him high calorie foods as deep down I feel it is unhealthy for him. I don't want to distract him whilst I spoon food in to him. I just want to be a relaxed mother who can let him discover food and feed himself. I can't be that mother though because the fact is, if I just leave him to it he will not gain enough weight and it'll be my fault. i'm crying writing this, I feel totally at a loss and I know my DH feels exaclty the same

I feel left alone to stuggle and wish someone could tell me why he is like this or at least give me something I can do about it that works.

OP posts:
FaintlyMacabre · 01/10/2009 13:24

Many sympathies to you, this sounds a horribly stressful situation to be in.
Basically, I agree with Colditz and Shineoncrazydiamond.
Your DS sounds a little like mine as a baby- he was on the 9th centile for weight but the 91st for length so quite a discrepancy. The difference was- no-one was worried, they just let me get on with it (probably helped that I was living in a rather notorious London borough with an over-stretched HV service!)
More recently he didn't gain a single ounce for 4 months (16-20). I imagine that if this had happened to you it would have been classed as a major disaster, more supplements prescribed, more worry and anxiety etc etc. My HV just said 'he looks fine, don't worry' and that was that.

It does sound as if his eating has been medicalised to a ridiculous degree. If the paediatrician is happy with his development and health then why is the dietician suggesting all these supplements? Could they be interfering with his natural appetite? What would happen if you just stopped them all, gave him normal cow's milk and normal food to feed himself?

RumourOfAHurricane · 01/10/2009 13:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

colditz · 01/10/2009 13:28

But getting him on the ninth centile for weight just because he is on the ninth centile for height just sounds mad. Children come in all shapes and sizes. Ds2 is on the 9th centile for height but the 25th for weight- should I be dieting him?> Ds1 was on the 75th centile for height and the 50th for weight - it could be the same height/weight disparity you are seeing in your son, but ds1 was perfectly healthy, just a bit thin.

Is she a specialist paedriatric dietician? Because these sorts of obsessions are fine for adults, adults aren't growing, but not really a good idea for children.

What does the paediatrician think? IMHO if he is happy and active, he's healthy.

Look, I know I'm banging on about this, but my mother did exactly what you are doing, and as a result, I didn't eat properly until I went to school and could eat in peace. I HATE people commenting on how much I'm eating, and the slightest stress at a mealtime can put me off my whole meal. Despite this, good food has nevertheless packed 3 extra unwanted stone on me, but I do wonder if she shouldn't have just left me alone a bit. All the fussing in the world didn't make me eat more - I just grew out of it.

differentnameforthis · 01/10/2009 13:30

Why did you start with the Paed? Who/want sent you there?

differentnameforthis · 01/10/2009 13:30

Who/what

Dalrymps · 01/10/2009 13:56

Colditz - I tend to agree re him being over medicalised. I often wonder what would have happened if we had done nothing at all. I feel I have no choice however as if I refuse the 'help' i'll be seen as as irresponsible parent.

DrLove - I have pondered over whether there was some other reason for ds's eating habbits. I did wonder at one point if he might be slighly autisitc or something along those lines but I posted on here and got reassurance that he isn't... He saw an SLT and she sid she thought he was just very sensitive to textures...

I haven't tried the procal but DH has, I wasn't sure if I can eat it when pg, silly I know! He just said it was grainy.

Shineon - You tell me! I took him to see the dietician back when er were referred. She asked about his eating habbits, how much he eats, what he eats etc. She said it seems he's difficult to feed and as it doesn't seem possible to get him to eat more than he does we'll put him on SMA high energy as heis weight has gone just off the bottom of the chart but his height is 9th centile and we'd like them to match.

Adifferentname - As far as meltimes go now, I do just leave him to it for the main bit. I either eat along side him or more likely at lunchtime I eat then do jobs around the kitchen. The pudding part however is a circus, I hate doing it!

The dietician seems very sure he should be having these extra calories via the powder and milk ad I feel they would be 'annoyed' if I suddently stopped this. We did cut his paediasure out for a while and he is still off it now but the dietician was all 'why did you do that' when we told her, she was understanding and helpful once we explained. The dietician feels if left to it he won't take enough calories by himself and therefore needs the supliments. I therefore feel I have to go along with it.

Him feeding himself anything that requires a spoon is hit and miss. Sometimes he justmakes a big mess and eats nothing at all. Sometimes he is willing and eats about half the pudding. You can understand the temptation for me to just feed him instead though as most times he'll eat it all if I do.

I am moderately concerned about chocking but if he ever retches or seems to choke I make sure I smile, stay relaxed (on the outside) and just give him his juice for him to have a drink if he wants one.

Yeah, I knew the tummy/fist thing. He's had tests through the paed to rule out medical issues...

Shineon - It's like he has 2 different meal times really, a relaxed one when he's feeding himself the main, we don't fuss and he is left to it. Then there's the pudding that is the oppsite.

I'm afraid he won't discover an appetite if I cut his milk back, he's not had one for as long as I can remember. He doesn't get constant snacks, he gets snacks once in an afternoon and not every day... It's so difficult.

If I try to feed him in the lounge which I have tried before he just plays with his toys and watches the tv or best of all feeds it to our dog!

Marne - Sounds similar to my ds. Did you get hounded off HCP's too or left alone. I would love to leave him to it but would also struggle that 'people' would think i'm not doing enough to help him...

He weighs 9.4kg.

Cyteen - The dietician is obsessed with the 9th centile. She wants him to have 'back up fat'.

Faintly - I had a ridiculously catious HV who I have now demanded to change as she caused me so much stress, there's a thread about that too...

I have suggested to DH that we cut out the crap and just feed him like a normal boy but am kinda worried in case it doesn't work and then there really will be no more 'ideas'.

OP posts:
whelk · 01/10/2009 13:56

You have my sympathies, feeding feels such a big part of being a mum. I haven't been where you are but got very anxious about my dd and food when I discovered she has food allergies.

In ordinary circumstances we are advised that too much milk can suppress the dcs desire to eat food. could this be the case?

If your own instinct is telling you that the special milk is not agreeing with your ds I would follow it and temporarily stop.

Totally agree that it seems ridiculous to insist on getting a child to 9th centile in weight just because they are in height. My dd1 is on 25th centile for her height and 50th for her weight. DD2 is on 95th for height and under 50th for weight. People come in all sizes. If he is healthy, active and happy then maybe he's doing just OK.

Height weight etc is also heretitary - it seems dd1 is like dh and dd2 more like me in shape. Does his body shape resemble yours or your dhs.

I wouldn't worry at all about the diet seemingly being unhealthy. Kids need high cal (i.e fatty) foods.

Finally - Ive just looked at your page. Your ds is gorgeous! You are clearly doing something right!

whelk · 01/10/2009 13:59

By the way what you describe him eating for lunch and tea is pretty close to what my own dd eats (she is 2.6).

differentnameforthis · 01/10/2009 14:01

9.4kg according to this, is spot on for his age!

whelk · 01/10/2009 14:03

Does he like any types of food e.g chips, crisps, chocolate?

NeedCoffee · 01/10/2009 14:11

Dal-If you 'cut out the crap' for a week or 2, what could possibly happen? I know you're anxious about this, but sometimes kids don't eat nothing for days when they're under the weather and they're fine. He doesn't need 'back up fat'! I think you need to take the power away from all the 'professionals'(sp) and decide enough is enough, He's happy, healthy and will eat when He's hungry. If feeding him normally, doesn't change then maybe rethink things, but I would give it a go-just because where else is there to go from here at the moment??

tiktok · 01/10/2009 14:19

I so agree about the stressful medicalising of this situation....two years is long enough!!

Enough with the medicalising and the high cal powders (yuk) and the entertainment followed by secret sobbing ....none of it works.

But I can see that saying 'stop being worried and just let what will be will be' is no good to you either, and I agree, it might risk him eating less.

Instead of seeing a dietitian, is there any way you can be referred to a different specialist? There is a Birmingham based child psych (she was on a TV programme about kids with eating issues about a year ago) - Dr Gill Harris, google her. The kids featured were much more extreme than your ds, but that is typical of TV...I expect many of her patients are more like your ds. Even if you can't see her or she cant see you, you could call her secretary and ask about colleagues in other areas who you could see.

Vamonos · 01/10/2009 14:19

Really I would trust your instincts - if you don't think the milk supplements are helping and aren't good for him then cut them down (or out altogether), let him eat what he wants, and see how it goes. You know him much better than the dietitian does, after all.

Agree with Colditz and the others re trying not to worry so much about it - I know it's really hard and really stressful and I can remember well the feeling of failure and despair when looking at the chart going down, but the thing to focus on is that he's fit and well, that's the ONLY thing that matters.

Oh and I agree with you re reward charts, and actually I think it's a bit odd to associate eating with 'rewards', you should eat because you're hungry and for no other reason.

cyteen · 01/10/2009 14:19

Dalrymps, I remember your thread about the HV which also made me make this face at the amount of interference they were making. It seems like this is a similar situation, and while I am of course not medically qualified and don't know you or your son, I think it's really important to trust yourself when it comes to your parenting instincts. He is your son, yours and DH's, and neither of you feel at all right about the level and tone of input into his eating.

The way I see it is this: you have tried the dietician's way, it hasn't done much, she hasn't given you any real reason as to why his height and weight centiles need to match - so why not try something else? Try it your way. Trust yourselves.

tiktok · 01/10/2009 14:22

I agree about the rewards for eating. Not age appropriate in any case, and a bizzare suggestion to reward eating.

Sounds to me that the dietitian is running out of ideas....

Dalrymps · 01/10/2009 14:24

colditz - I agree with you! Feeding him his pudding the way I do goes against my insticts totally, I hate myself for doing it and only carry on as I cn hear the dietician saying 'get those calories in'.

I also don't think 0.4th for weight and 9th for height is a big difference at all but then I think 'what would his weight be without the high can stuff he's been on so long?'. He's been on it for over a year, for all I know he could have been way off the bottom of the chart by now without it, i'll never know the answer to that though...

I am trying so hard to relax and tell my dh off if he doesn't. Right now i am sat writing on here listening to one of my fav cd's whilst he eats his cheese on toast and quavers... I am not paying him much attention at all. He's eating ok right now but that's cause he's eating his favourite, quavers and cheese.

differentname - The over zealous HV referred us to the paed as over several months his weight had dropped over 2 centiles. It was a very gradual drop and he never actually 'lost' weight.

Whelk - I think the milk definately has an effect. even when on 'normal' milk he didn't take as much as some other babies. In fact the hv used to hound me saying 'are you sure he won't take 6-7oz???' and 'trt and get a few more oz in to him each day'. I felt like saying, what do you want me to do, force it in to him? He won't flippin take it!

I have stopped the paediasure plus for now as I said but would like a chance to try him just on whole/jersy milk for a few weeks. I am worried he won't have gianed enough weight by his next check up in jan if I do that however and the dietician will be all annoying. Listen to me, I sound like I can't do what I want with my own child, I don't feel I can.

Yes, he does resemble both myself and dh as children, I was fairly skinny and dh was really skinny to the point his granny was worried about him. He loved fruit adn veg as a child so was just skinny but healthy, you wouldn't believe it to look at him him, eats anything and everything. My brothers can eat what they like and never gain weight . I think it is in his genes.

Thanks for the compliment, I agree he's gorgeous surprisingly

He does like a bit of chocolate and loves crisps. He likes chips but not that much, likes batter from the chip shop but suppose thats a bit like crisps.

OP posts:
fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 01/10/2009 14:25

I agree about the medicalization..my DD was not referred as she was still on the charts, but that was only because she is tall and was on the 80th for height, so when she was very underweight she was still on the 10th for height, if she had started on the 9th percentile for height we would probably have been referred too and ended up much more stressed out than we were.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 01/10/2009 14:26

10th for weight I mean, which is a MUCH bigger difference than your DS, but noone was worried.

WhatFreshHellIsThis · 01/10/2009 14:28

Dalrymps I think I remember your threads about your HV, she sounded dreadful and I hope you've got rid of her.

Listen, is there any chance that all this HV nonsense and paed/dietitian crap has knocked your confidence in knowing what's best for your son? You sound like instinctively you feel he is fine and needs to be left alone, I would second everyone who has suggested abandoning all the intervention for a bit and seeing what happens. What's the worst that could happen? He doesn't eat? You're not going to let it get to the point of him starving, are you, so maybe it's worth a try?

DS1 is 3.5 and has always had a tiny appetite - some days he'll only eat two bites of tea and then he's done. My nephew ate nothing but jam sandwiches for about a year and is now a happy 9 year old running about like crazy at school.

It sounds like the stress of it all is worse than the actual food consumed. And if he's feeding himself his main course fine, why does he need the pudding? Maybe he just doesn't like pudding much, or can't digest it very well?

I would drop all the intervention and just watch what he eats for a week. Give him food, let him pick what he wants, and look at what he's eating. He honestly might surprise you.

tiktok · 01/10/2009 14:35

Have heard good things about 'My Child Won't Eat' book, and it sounds full of good sense.

Better get it from the library - Amazon UK have it in second hand editions only, price £102.00 !!!!!

MachinesAreGo · 01/10/2009 14:36

Dalrymps - I feel for you, in fact I WAS you a few years ago. My dd wouldn't eat. She didn't like many foods (including basic things like bread, pasta) and those she did eat she would only take tiny amounts of. She was under a paed and a dietician for a couple of years.
It used to frighten me how little she would take in. She used to scream at meal times and it was incredibly stressful.
I didn't find a magic cure. I did all the right things about removing pressure, keeping offering, high cal foods etc.
DD is now 6. 50th centile for height, 0.4th for weight. The most physical, strong child you can imagine. Never ill. Eats a huge range of foods - better than her sibling - and if in the mood can eat adult portions of pasta, risotto, roast etc. However, at other times, she just doesn't want to eat - probably one meal every two days she will just say no thanks. I am now fine with this, and I never imagined I would be.
People do comment that she is skinny, but also that she is very strong and energetic. She also delights people when she goes to their houses for tea and eats everything on her plate.
It is a situation I could never have imagined in her first four years of life, when food was such a big issue for us all. I don't have a magic wand, but I can offer hope that it won't always be this hard for you, and little by little things CAN improve, and in a few years your DS may be unrecognisable to the child you have now.
Best of luck

Horton · 01/10/2009 14:41

Unless a child is underweight/undernourished to the point of it affecting their behaviour, I find this kind of HCP behaviour really puzzling. I think it's to your son's credit that despite the higher and higher calorie milk, he is still stopping when he is full. It is not good for anyone to stuff them with more bites when they are already full, surely?

I have very similar 'problems' with my DD aged 3 who is seriously underweight and nowhere near any centile on the chart at about 10kg while being of nearly average height. But in my case I dealt with the whole thing by deciding that a child with as much energy etc as she has was not lacking in enough calories to do what she wanted to do, and erm never going near another HCP apart from our lovely and sensible doctor. Might it be worth suggesting to the doctors etc that you just try backing away from the whole issue for a while? I totally agree with everyone who says this is being overmedicalised.

It's also in my DD's genes. Me and her dad are both skinny, even at our advanced ages!

craftynclothy · 01/10/2009 14:41

Sounds a bit like my dd1. She would never take the amount of formula that the boxes suggested. She's never been a big eater either.

Only difference seems to be I stopped having her weighed after the HV kept moaning at me to wake her at night for an extra feed (even though she then only took 1/2 an ounce). At her 2 year check they just glanced at her, said she looks roughly in proportion and as long as I was happy she had plenty of energy not to worry about the amount she was eating.

DD1 eats the following:
Breakfast - small bowl of rice crispies, banana if she doesn't eat much of them (doesn't always eat all that)
Snack mid-morning - an apple (sometimes eats it all sometimes just a few bites)
Lunch - ham sandwich (made with one slice, folded in half and cut in half & she leaves the edges) plus a few crisps and some fruit or a small yogurt OR half to one slice of toast with a tablespoon of beans/hoops
Mid-afternoon snack - bit of fruit maybe or a small yogurt
Dinner - some of what we have. Maybe half a carrot, bite of a couple of other veg, half a potato. She won't eat meat or fish.
Cup of milk at bedtime (whole cows milk)

We've never fussed too much about it cos she seems to have plenty of energy. It can be hard to get her to eat stuff cos she's fussy but we've never been too bothered about how much she eats.

Oh and she was on the 2nd centile for weight and they've never measured her so no idea if it's similar to her height.

Dalrymps · 01/10/2009 14:44

NC - I see what you're saying, tery it and see. I agree, I think we have to to find out. I guess i'm more worried about the feelin of defeat if it doesn't work, it will be hard to cope with with these pg hormones at the mo... Will have to stop being pathetic though.

tiktok - He was referred to something similar a while ago, a program called 'moving pictures' where a team of psychologists try and analyse the situation. One of the psychologists came and filmed him eating for 10 mins, or rather not eating! She took it away, came back and said... You're not doing anything wrong and we don't think he has a behavioural problem, it's probably just the way he is and it might just be he'll take longer to adjust to eating than some other children, just like some children take ages to sleep through etc.

She also said he was the youngest child to be referred to their scheme and usually they have older kids with more behavioural/parental problems. She said he collegues had no 'ideas' for me and just to carry on as I am and I can call for advice if I like. She said she didn't need to come back and see him again anytime soon.

Vamonos - Yes, I'm just not sure about the reward chart. I am a fan of gentle praise if he eats but don't praise after every mouthfull, just occasinally. I don't think he's old enough to mentally understand the reward thing anyway, just looks at us with a blank expression!

Cyteen - That seems to be the general consensus, that we should try our way for a bit. I can't see anything else we can do. It just seems the longer we go on the more supliments he gets put on and just as his eating starts to pick up it goes down again.

Ok so he's finished lunch. I let him eat the crisps and cheese on toast, not much of the cheese on toast was eaten but that usual. He asked for some chocolate balls out of my muller corner so I put a few spoons of the yogurt on his tray with the balls in and he ate that with his fingers. He then chucked all the rest on the floor and said 'all done' . I let him go play, no circus spoon feed, already feeling guilty I haven't fed him pudding...

OP posts:
colditz · 01/10/2009 14:53

Dn't feel guilty for not feeding him food he doesn't want to eat. please.

What did the paed say about all this, have you told him/her you are getting stressed and would like to leave it and see what happens?

Honeslty, dietician sounds like she has bee in bonnet