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Vegan

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11 year old pescatarian wants to go vegan

168 replies

Chingchok · 26/10/2021 06:10

Hi all

Having decided to stop eating meat at age 9, my son now wants to stop eating fish and dairy. He has never been able to eat eggs because of allergy, but now he has switched to oat or almond milk, and doesn’t want to eat fish anymore.

We support him, however I feel really torn and anxious about his nutrition. He already has an iron deficiency (he was always on the edge of it before stopping meat), vit D deficiency and he has suspected ADHD. I’ve tried vegan fish oils (Nothing Fishy) which are almost impossible to get him to take. He takes an iron supplement and vitamin D but I also worry about b12, EFAs…

A lot of vegan ready-made foods are relatively processed, and we are both allergic to several preservatives, so I make almost everything myself. Nut cheese, chickpea tofu, miso, a wide varieties of lentils, beans, nut butters and seed dips and oils. We almost completely stopped eating meat when he did, and so I already cooked 90 per cent vegetarian foods at home. When he has to eat out, ie on a school trip, fish has often been the only option available to him.

Oh and his school is nut-free. So no almond milk, cashew nut cheese.

I would really welcome concrete advice on how to make this switch, how to make sure he gets enough of specific nutrients, how not to spend my entire life in the kitchen…

Thank you in advance for sharing your experiences!

OP posts:
Oftenithinkaboutit · 27/10/2021 17:17

The doctors tested presumably?

Cormoran · 27/10/2021 19:31

@Chingchok a lot of vegans ignore the VEGan part and will just focus on what they don't eat. Your son likes VEGgies, great. Make sure to include tofu (always buy extra-firm) , lentils, beans, of all colours and shape.
As others have already said, soya milk is nutritionally superior to oats or almonds.
A great variety of vegetables will cover most minerals. Nutritional yeast is a vitamin B bomb. Don't fall into the trap of the "Fakes", fake burger, fake sausage, fake whatever. Of course, occasionally they are fine, but if they become the core of the diet, a daily presence, it is unhealthy for a growing body and growing brain. I know you already have excluded these.

Don't ignore seeds as well. Flax seeds on top of oats are very beneficial for the gut microbiome. Chia seeds are quite versatile for chia puddings for breakfast. Quinoa is a complete protein and very tasty,
You can make seeds crackers and serve them with tapenade . Look at Middle Eastern recipe books for delicious meals involving chickpeas. You can make socca - here a recipe in English cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1014757-socca-farinata - I use 2/3 chickpea flour and 1/3 plain.

I have guests all the time - well I had, pre-covid - and they would be served a vegan dinner without even realising it. Polenta chips, tofu fingers, minestrone, onion soup, hummus and other dips, oven-roasted leeks, tabbouleh , apple crumble, .tomato bruschetta, ...

You need to be mindful of calcium and where to source it. If giving a supplement, you also need a K2 supplement to direct the calcium to the bones.
Lemon with his iron-rich food will increase absorption.
Edamame is a dead easy to prepare as a nutrient-packed snack. A pot of boiling water, empty edamame bag, cook for 7 minutes, drain and dry, add a bit of salt.

For school lunches think focaccia, socca (recipe above) , chickpea muffin , arancini, roasted veggie pinwheels, ...

Vegan can be delicious and mouth watering. When I bake, and I bake a lot, I just substitute olive oil for butter - and will add vanilla extract to mask taste - and egg replacer powder . Plenty of cakes. I will occasionally do cheesecakes with coconut oil but once a year maybe.
When I do a vegan bolognese with roasted tofu crumbles or lentils, a few drops of liquid smoke will add the meaty flavour.

Don't worry too much about vitamin D. UK is sun-phobic so the majority of the population is deficient.

I know I said it already, but you need to supplement. B12 is a MUST, EPA-DHA (I use DEVA 500 mg EPA-DHA, I take 2 grams, so 4 per day, but your son should take 1 gr, a big pill but no effect on digestion , no burps , by far the best I have tried ) , Vitamin D, as the bare minimum.

A quality multivitamin, once or twice a week - not a supermarket gummies - and a brand that is third party tested such as Thorne . More expensive, but supplement are a jungle, no regulation .

Chingchok · 01/11/2021 02:30

[quote Cormoran]@Chingchok a lot of vegans ignore the VEGan part and will just focus on what they don't eat. Your son likes VEGgies, great. Make sure to include tofu (always buy extra-firm) , lentils, beans, of all colours and shape.
As others have already said, soya milk is nutritionally superior to oats or almonds.
A great variety of vegetables will cover most minerals. Nutritional yeast is a vitamin B bomb. Don't fall into the trap of the "Fakes", fake burger, fake sausage, fake whatever. Of course, occasionally they are fine, but if they become the core of the diet, a daily presence, it is unhealthy for a growing body and growing brain. I know you already have excluded these.

Don't ignore seeds as well. Flax seeds on top of oats are very beneficial for the gut microbiome. Chia seeds are quite versatile for chia puddings for breakfast. Quinoa is a complete protein and very tasty,
You can make seeds crackers and serve them with tapenade . Look at Middle Eastern recipe books for delicious meals involving chickpeas. You can make socca - here a recipe in English cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1014757-socca-farinata - I use 2/3 chickpea flour and 1/3 plain.

I have guests all the time - well I had, pre-covid - and they would be served a vegan dinner without even realising it. Polenta chips, tofu fingers, minestrone, onion soup, hummus and other dips, oven-roasted leeks, tabbouleh , apple crumble, .tomato bruschetta, ...

You need to be mindful of calcium and where to source it. If giving a supplement, you also need a K2 supplement to direct the calcium to the bones.
Lemon with his iron-rich food will increase absorption.
Edamame is a dead easy to prepare as a nutrient-packed snack. A pot of boiling water, empty edamame bag, cook for 7 minutes, drain and dry, add a bit of salt.

For school lunches think focaccia, socca (recipe above) , chickpea muffin , arancini, roasted veggie pinwheels, ...

Vegan can be delicious and mouth watering. When I bake, and I bake a lot, I just substitute olive oil for butter - and will add vanilla extract to mask taste - and egg replacer powder . Plenty of cakes. I will occasionally do cheesecakes with coconut oil but once a year maybe.
When I do a vegan bolognese with roasted tofu crumbles or lentils, a few drops of liquid smoke will add the meaty flavour.

Don't worry too much about vitamin D. UK is sun-phobic so the majority of the population is deficient.

I know I said it already, but you need to supplement. B12 is a MUST, EPA-DHA (I use DEVA 500 mg EPA-DHA, I take 2 grams, so 4 per day, but your son should take 1 gr, a big pill but no effect on digestion , no burps , by far the best I have tried ) , Vitamin D, as the bare minimum.

A quality multivitamin, once or twice a week - not a supermarket gummies - and a brand that is third party tested such as Thorne . More expensive, but supplement are a jungle, no regulation .[/quote]
Thank you for this comprehensive post. You made me realise we already do a lot of this, even down to the socca. Tofu in this part of the world is made from various things, not just soybeans - we love the yellow pea flour version, eaten hot as porridge then cut into cubes - or chickpea flour. We also eat the tofu skin, yuba, fresh, although Japanese restaurants often use fish based sauces. Thanks for the reminder about seeds - I’ve stocked up again and will make sure to add them more frequently. I guess ultimately it’s about practice and confidence 🙏

OP posts:
Chingchok · 01/11/2021 02:31

@Oftenithinkaboutit

The doctors tested presumably?
Yes you are correct - we went to the hospital, and asked them for a test, which was carried out by their laboratory 🙏
OP posts:
Chocaholic9 · 01/11/2021 02:42

Don't do it OP! I went vegan in my early twenties. Within a couple of years I'd developed several nutritional deficiencies and it took a long time to get my health back to normal. Supplements aren't always absorbed properly.

Chocaholic9 · 01/11/2021 02:45

If something goes wrong and he doesn't get everything he needs nutritionally, it could affect him very badly since he is still growing. There are lots of nutrients we need from animal foods that people sometimes don't supplement. DHA, carnosine, creatine, taurine, to give a few examples

Strokethefurrywall · 01/11/2021 02:58

There’s a difference between going plant based and going vegan and they’re not the same thing.

You can be a vegan and be utterly devoid of nutrition due to eating processed vegan food.

Or you can be plant based (or better yet), whole food plant based and gain health benefits.

I’d recommend checking out “forks over knives” and all Pinterest recipes related to wfpb eating.

It’s going to be tricky to fortify a fussy child’s diet (especially with adhd) but there are many ways to get good meals in.

Also the best one I found for “transitioning” cooking is itdoesnttastelikechicken.com - she’s veganised all standard meals/comfort foods from all scratch ingredients and may help make it easier.

FWIW I eat wfpb and am actually far better at preparing quick meals now than I ever was before. Once you find maybe 5-7 meals you/your son will eat, it’s easier to rely on those whilst trying out new ones together.

Kintsugi16 · 01/11/2021 04:35

You can be a vegan and be utterly devoid of nutrition due to eating processed vegan food

Or you can be plant based (or better yet), whole food plant based and gain health benefits

You could also flip those 2 statements around. ‘Plant-based’ a term I hate, as it says nothing really, relates to diet. Veganism is a way of life.

Oftenithinkaboutit · 01/11/2021 06:08

Yes you are correct - we went to the hospital, and asked them for a test, which was carried out by their laboratory 🙏

So you were sufficiently worried about your so that you went to hospital. Where is was discovered he had an iron deficiency.

He is a young child op. And he is so nutritionally deficient in iron that you took him to hospital. And he is now on prescription level iron supplements.

I would say to him

“I’m open to you cutting out yet more food groups. However we won’t be able to do this until you’ve reached a point that your intake is sufficiently rich in iron that you do not have to take prescribed iron”

Iron. So important to humans. But my word - an 11 year old? Utterly critical. He should be at the most active of his entire life!! And yet he’s having to have prescribed iron in order to be able to have sufficient energy

Aggy35 · 01/11/2021 07:15

Im surprised at the comments...when a vegan family 'force' their views on children its viewed as terrible yet majority here advocate to force the child to eat what they refuse to ?Double standards?

Chocaholic9 · 01/11/2021 07:28

@Aggy35

Im surprised at the comments...when a vegan family 'force' their views on children its viewed as terrible yet majority here advocate to force the child to eat what they refuse to ?Double standards?
Not double standards, but common sense. Vegans often end up under nourished. I was one of them, even while taking supplements that I wasn't absorbing.

No family wants their child to be malnourished; this is why many won't be happy about their child wanting to go vegan.

pompomsgalore · 01/11/2021 07:47

@Chocaholic9

Don't do it OP! I went vegan in my early twenties. Within a couple of years I'd developed several nutritional deficiencies and it took a long time to get my health back to normal. Supplements aren't always absorbed properly.
You are a sample of one so it can't be extrapolated to anyone else.
Kanaloa · 01/11/2021 07:57

You prepare him nutritionally appropriate meals for his age that everyone can eat, because you are not a short order cook, because you pay for the food and he is not royalty. If he doesn’t eat it you make him go to bed early, or remove some privileges.

Can I just say please do not do this. Sending a child to bead early or removing their privileges because they won’t eat something is absolutely no way to encourage a healthy attitude to food.

I would speak to him about the reality of the situation. Explain that you’d like to support him with this but as he refuses vitamins you are very worried about how this will affect his health, and see if you can come to an agreement about trying it for a set period and see how it works.

Seasonschange · 01/11/2021 09:16

@Chocaholic9

Don't do it OP! I went vegan in my early twenties. Within a couple of years I'd developed several nutritional deficiencies and it took a long time to get my health back to normal. Supplements aren't always absorbed properly.
I also went vegan at that age and felt like shit. But in hindsight I ate mostly crisps and biscuits (because I was broke and veganism back then was less common). Your anecdote is not data.
Almostwelsh · 01/11/2021 11:47

Irrespective of the merits or otherwise of a vegan diet, I would be concerned by the iron deficiency which seems to be there no matter what diet he is on.

People who are healthy and are not menstruating women shouldn't have iron deficiency ( neither should menstruating women, but in their case you look at stuff like heavy periods as an explanation before looking elsewhere).

Many people I know who have had persistent iron deficiency, including children have later been diagnosed with coeliac disease. It can run in families. Has this been ruled out? Or other medical cause of malnutrition? I would really try to get to the bottom of this before looking at changing his diet

Obecalp · 01/11/2021 21:25

How do people figure out what they are low on btw, do you just make a docs appointment and ask to have bloods analysed for that?

Obecalp · 01/11/2021 21:29

You prepare him nutritionally appropriate meals for his age that everyone can eat, because you are not a short order cook, because you pay for the food and he is not royalty. If he doesn’t eat it you make him go to bed early, or remove some privileges.

What if it was just one thing he didn't want to eat, e.g. pork. I know someone from a country in Africa with a large proportion of Muslims and Christians where neither denomination eat pork. Dislike of pork for health-related reasons is not uncommon actually, I've met several people who aren't religious but refuse to eat pork. Would you punish him for not eating that? Or is it only veganism you think is too far?

midlifecrash · 01/11/2021 21:44

If he was eating fish and cheese before and was iron deficient I would wonder why - presumably they tested for any wheat allergy? Also remember you need vitamin c to process iron so need to up both. Also micronutrients very important so even small amounts of seeds as others have mentioned, seaweeds, dark greens

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