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Join Mumsnet's vegan community and discuss everything related to the vegan diet.

11 year old pescatarian wants to go vegan

168 replies

Chingchok · 26/10/2021 06:10

Hi all

Having decided to stop eating meat at age 9, my son now wants to stop eating fish and dairy. He has never been able to eat eggs because of allergy, but now he has switched to oat or almond milk, and doesn’t want to eat fish anymore.

We support him, however I feel really torn and anxious about his nutrition. He already has an iron deficiency (he was always on the edge of it before stopping meat), vit D deficiency and he has suspected ADHD. I’ve tried vegan fish oils (Nothing Fishy) which are almost impossible to get him to take. He takes an iron supplement and vitamin D but I also worry about b12, EFAs…

A lot of vegan ready-made foods are relatively processed, and we are both allergic to several preservatives, so I make almost everything myself. Nut cheese, chickpea tofu, miso, a wide varieties of lentils, beans, nut butters and seed dips and oils. We almost completely stopped eating meat when he did, and so I already cooked 90 per cent vegetarian foods at home. When he has to eat out, ie on a school trip, fish has often been the only option available to him.

Oh and his school is nut-free. So no almond milk, cashew nut cheese.

I would really welcome concrete advice on how to make this switch, how to make sure he gets enough of specific nutrients, how not to spend my entire life in the kitchen…

Thank you in advance for sharing your experiences!

OP posts:
Chunkymenrock · 26/10/2021 08:20

No, no, no. He needs these things (fish etc) to provide optimum nutrition whilst he's growing. He can go vegan when he's 18 if he wants.

Fetarabbit · 26/10/2021 08:20

@Chunkymenrock

No, no, no. He needs these things (fish etc) to provide optimum nutrition whilst he's growing. He can go vegan when he's 18 if he wants.
No he doesn't.
superstripeysocks · 26/10/2021 08:21

@trumpisagit sorry, misunderstood your post there!

WaltzingBetty · 26/10/2021 08:22

Avocado is absolutely dreadful for the environment
@superstripeysocks
No one has suggested it isn't. It's also heavily consumed by omnivores as described in the post you quoted. What's your point?

WaltzingBetty · 26/10/2021 08:24

[quote superstripeysocks]@trumpisagit sorry, misunderstood your post there! [/quote]
Ah! Cross post

You misread it as an opportunity to criticise vegans
Shame that uninformed, knee jerk reaction didn't work out for you

defnotadomesticgoddess · 26/10/2021 08:27

I have been vegan, vegetarian and now pescatarian (change due to health reasons) and my dd (who I’m pretty sure is neurodiverse) wanted to be vegetarian from around 10. She is pescatarian. We discussed my experiences of being vegan and how it’s really important to get the nutrition right, so would have to eat certain foods to get the balance right. I didn’t eat enough protein for years as I didn’t really understand anything about nutrition (& take multivitamins inc b12 and iron) If she didn’t want to eat them she’d have to continue eating meat to get her nutrients, Health is more important than anything else. Also discussed not setting rigid rules for herself over what she’d eat and to eat what she wanted to and not feel “bad” about it.

chinateapot · 26/10/2021 08:33

I’m the coeliac mum of a pescatarian 14 year old (her decision when she was 10) and an omnivore 9 year old who used to be dairy allergic and has also previously had cancer so needes various diet changes there. Oh and my husband has a significant nut allergy so we have no nuts in the house. So lots of experience with dietary restrictions and family meals are already complex in our house.

There is no way I would try to “make” either of my children eat meat / fish / dairy if they thought about it and decided they didn’t want to. We’d talk about it and the pros and cons of alternatives (I personally think if using v low food miles options eg locally caught fish v soya vegan alternatives the environmental impact balance js complex) but at 11 this kid is absolutely old enough to deserve respect and help and support in working out a viable healthy diet.

Oftenithinkaboutit · 26/10/2021 08:37

‘My boy, when you don’t need to take an iron supplement because your levels are so low, then we can talk about cutting out more food groups. Until then, dairy and fish are on the menu’

superstripeysocks · 26/10/2021 08:38

@WaltzingBetty ahahaha! I'm vegan! But hey, shame that uninformed, knee jerk reaction didn't work out for you Grin

Doesn't mean I think children should be though.

WaltzingBetty · 26/10/2021 08:50

[quote superstripeysocks]@WaltzingBetty ahahaha! I'm vegan! But hey, shame that uninformed, knee jerk reaction didn't work out for you Grin

Doesn't mean I think children should be though. [/quote]
So? I'm not.
Doesn't prevent me from supporting others in making sensible and informed choices. Your personal dietary choices are pretty irrelevant, as it's clear you're using misinformation to try and justify your judgement of others.

WaltzingBetty · 26/10/2021 08:52

@Oftenithinkaboutit

‘My boy, when you don’t need to take an iron supplement because your levels are so low, then we can talk about cutting out more food groups. Until then, dairy and fish are on the menu’
Please explain how dairy and fish consumption significantly contribute to addressing the iron deficiency
chocolatecerealcampingbrekkie · 26/10/2021 08:54

I wouldn't allow it but it's probably just a phase. But I'd buy him a book about vegan cooking for kids and let him experiment with meals snacks etc.

Oftenithinkaboutit · 26/10/2021 08:57

@WaltzingBetty

Are you seriously asking that?

Mackerel? Sardines? Tuna? Phenomenal sources of iron.

Dairy - negligible iron. But my point is - when my child is not so sufficient in one essential that they have to take a supplement, then we can talk about excluding other food groups.

My son deficient in iron AND I allow him to exclude more food groups, with dairy the risk being calcium? Not a chance.

Reduce? Ok, sure. Some compromise.

Exclude? Not until no iron supplements necessary.

He needs some skin in the game

Chingchok · 26/10/2021 08:58

Wow, I’m kind of astounded and taken aback at the speed of response and the intensity of feelings... I posted in the vegan section because I really wanted specific dietary advice, more than I wanted personal opinions or received ideas about meat-eating/the climate.

I should have perhaps made it clearer that we are not in the U.K. so ...very different living conditions.

  • he has always had low iron. Severe egg and shellfish allergies too. Even as a baby, I would feed him chicken livers, lentils, beef stock. I know about heme iron, I know it’s more easily absorbed, and that for lentils or whatever you need to have it alongside a vit C source like lime or tomato. He was borderline deficient even when he ate meat.
  • as far as I am aware, vitamin D from diet is only about 10 per cent, the rest is from sun exposure. We made the incorrect assumption that we didn’t need vit D supplements because we have plenty of sunshine: in reality, our kids have to spend a lot of time indoors for much of the year due to pollution, and wear masks outside. And it’s super hot so we cover up a lot - you’d be sunburnt very quickly.
  • we have never managed to get a conclusive diagnosis on his development issues. It isn’t as straightforward as you might imagine where we live. He was variously diagnosed with sensory processing disorder, adhd, or being on the spectrum. Ultimately from a dietary perspective he does better on a whole foods diet. I should make it clear that he used to suffer from extreme meltdowns during early childhood and we raised him omnivorous. He ate a lot of meat, fish, blood sausage, ants...and I mean literally everything - my husband is French, we live in Asia, his diet was varied and wide. His symptoms if anything have improved.

One constant is the intensity of emotions that he feels, and the strength of his beliefs.

I am not interested in a vegan vs meat eater debate, and anyone that came here to question our parenting because we respect his choices - I hear you, but you are probably on the wrong board. We believe in authoritative parenting not authoritarian. And anyway I have to chuckle at the notion that we could force him to eat dead creatures. He won’t. And I guarantee you any climate factoid that you think you know - he knows it already, and why it’s wrong. We recently visited the U.K. and it’s quite interesting to see how many people think they understand the climate crisis, but without really understanding. A family member even accused him of not loving farm animals and wanting them all to be culled - he said he loves them so much he doesn’t want them to be slaughtered to be eaten.

Yes, he’s 11, he stopped eating meat at 9 because he looked down an alley while we were travelling round Asia and saw a pig being slaughtered. My husband and I grew up in the U.K. and in France, where farm animals are cosy and cute and ham sandwiches are tasty, and certainly never, EVER witnessed that. In fact I haven’t actually watched the most graphic slaughterhouse videos from the U.K. I do know I was comforting myself with words like “humane”, and by remaining ignorant about the true reality of slaughter methods. By the way, I am careful not to let him ever watch such videos, and he luckily doesn’t want to.

Seeing and hearing that pig die, he never wavered for a second, he simply stopped eating meat. He had just decided to become Buddhist, and we had eaten at vegan Buddhist restaurants on many occasions. It’s not out of nowhere.

We parents continued to eat meat outside the home, while he decided fish was still okay as they didn’t feel pain (I know this is not true). In fact we mostly stopped meat due to climate, as well as it being easier to cook just one meal, but gradually it became a question of ethics too. Yes, he influenced us, that does not mean he is controlling us; we are on our own journey too.

Money: it’s not the issue here. We were spending a LOT on meat, because we were already trying to buy high welfare hormone free bla bla bla. We are spending less. Cashews are grown where we live. And we are absolutely spoilt in terms of affordable and very fresh tofu, tempeh, good nutcheese. It isn’t as expensive as in the U.K. and it tastes really good. Chia seeds are grown here, and we can easily get pumpkin seeds (very rich in iron).

Thank you for those of you that offered specific dietary advice. I just found a vegan DHA source and I’ll ask about b12 supplements for him (he does love marmite). We can easily buy seaweed and I read that potentially some kinds contain b12.

A lot of the vegans I know didn’t go vegan until adulthood, so they aren’t sure, and meanwhile the meat-eaters don’t want to countenance it, so it isn’t necessarily easy to get unbiased info about vegan nutrition in childhood.

Thank you so much to those of you that gave supportive and informed responses. I agree with those of you that said that eating meat and dairy is the default choice, and that may change one day. Certainly for the climate it absolutely has to, but since there are ways to have a non-vegan planet friendly diet (not ruminants but maybe eg crickets, and yes, we sometimes used to eat thoseWink), it doesn’t resolve the question of ethics and morality and his deeply-held belief that animals are not here for our gustatory pleasure).

I feel like I should make it clear that he isn’t some terrible tyrant, he isn’t going to come and snatch away your burgers, he’s actually a loving and peaceful child who doesn’t want to hurt - quite literally - a fly. I just want to make sure he gets the best diet possible while he is under my care. Forcefeeding or blackmail aren’t in my playbook Star

OP posts:
superstripeysocks · 26/10/2021 08:58

@WaltzingBetty

I haven't criticised vegans (of which I am one - and nope, not irrelevant when I'm accused of using misinformation to judge others) anywhere. I don't believe children should be vegans. My belief. You angrily disagree. The end.

Oftenithinkaboutit · 26/10/2021 09:05

My son goes crazy for the skin and it's a tense negotiation every time.

**we don’t hesitate to cook with pork or goose fat”

Couldn’t resist a search OP Grin

Goodness a lots changed in a few years!

WaltzingBetty · 26/10/2021 09:07

[quote superstripeysocks]@WaltzingBetty

I haven't criticised vegans (of which I am one - and nope, not irrelevant when I'm accused of using misinformation to judge others) anywhere. I don't believe children should be vegans. My belief. You angrily disagree. The end. [/quote]
Angrily? ConfusedGrin aye, right.

Ok - you don't judge vegan adults - you do however judge vegan children and parents that accommodate them.

And I've already pointed out some of your misinformation. I'd love to know how you explain why PHE recommend vit d supplementation for everyone in the UK if it's a dietary issue?

Chingchok · 26/10/2021 09:08

If I remember correctly, too much dairy can exacerbate iron deficiency; we were warned not to give him too much cow’s milk as a little one.

Lot of misconceptions about iron. Pumpkin seeds have more iron than beef, if I remember correctly. I make a dip with lime juice in, because iron in meat is indeed easier to absorb.

It’s not a black and white choice between supplements or animals.

OP posts:
WaltzingBetty · 26/10/2021 09:10

@Chingchok

Wow, I’m kind of astounded and taken aback at the speed of response and the intensity of feelings... I posted in the vegan section because I really wanted specific dietary advice, more than I wanted personal opinions or received ideas about meat-eating/the climate.

I should have perhaps made it clearer that we are not in the U.K. so ...very different living conditions.

  • he has always had low iron. Severe egg and shellfish allergies too. Even as a baby, I would feed him chicken livers, lentils, beef stock. I know about heme iron, I know it’s more easily absorbed, and that for lentils or whatever you need to have it alongside a vit C source like lime or tomato. He was borderline deficient even when he ate meat.
  • as far as I am aware, vitamin D from diet is only about 10 per cent, the rest is from sun exposure. We made the incorrect assumption that we didn’t need vit D supplements because we have plenty of sunshine: in reality, our kids have to spend a lot of time indoors for much of the year due to pollution, and wear masks outside. And it’s super hot so we cover up a lot - you’d be sunburnt very quickly.
  • we have never managed to get a conclusive diagnosis on his development issues. It isn’t as straightforward as you might imagine where we live. He was variously diagnosed with sensory processing disorder, adhd, or being on the spectrum. Ultimately from a dietary perspective he does better on a whole foods diet. I should make it clear that he used to suffer from extreme meltdowns during early childhood and we raised him omnivorous. He ate a lot of meat, fish, blood sausage, ants...and I mean literally everything - my husband is French, we live in Asia, his diet was varied and wide. His symptoms if anything have improved.

One constant is the intensity of emotions that he feels, and the strength of his beliefs.

I am not interested in a vegan vs meat eater debate, and anyone that came here to question our parenting because we respect his choices - I hear you, but you are probably on the wrong board. We believe in authoritative parenting not authoritarian. And anyway I have to chuckle at the notion that we could force him to eat dead creatures. He won’t. And I guarantee you any climate factoid that you think you know - he knows it already, and why it’s wrong. We recently visited the U.K. and it’s quite interesting to see how many people think they understand the climate crisis, but without really understanding. A family member even accused him of not loving farm animals and wanting them all to be culled - he said he loves them so much he doesn’t want them to be slaughtered to be eaten.

Yes, he’s 11, he stopped eating meat at 9 because he looked down an alley while we were travelling round Asia and saw a pig being slaughtered. My husband and I grew up in the U.K. and in France, where farm animals are cosy and cute and ham sandwiches are tasty, and certainly never, EVER witnessed that. In fact I haven’t actually watched the most graphic slaughterhouse videos from the U.K. I do know I was comforting myself with words like “humane”, and by remaining ignorant about the true reality of slaughter methods. By the way, I am careful not to let him ever watch such videos, and he luckily doesn’t want to.

Seeing and hearing that pig die, he never wavered for a second, he simply stopped eating meat. He had just decided to become Buddhist, and we had eaten at vegan Buddhist restaurants on many occasions. It’s not out of nowhere.

We parents continued to eat meat outside the home, while he decided fish was still okay as they didn’t feel pain (I know this is not true). In fact we mostly stopped meat due to climate, as well as it being easier to cook just one meal, but gradually it became a question of ethics too. Yes, he influenced us, that does not mean he is controlling us; we are on our own journey too.

Money: it’s not the issue here. We were spending a LOT on meat, because we were already trying to buy high welfare hormone free bla bla bla. We are spending less. Cashews are grown where we live. And we are absolutely spoilt in terms of affordable and very fresh tofu, tempeh, good nutcheese. It isn’t as expensive as in the U.K. and it tastes really good. Chia seeds are grown here, and we can easily get pumpkin seeds (very rich in iron).

Thank you for those of you that offered specific dietary advice. I just found a vegan DHA source and I’ll ask about b12 supplements for him (he does love marmite). We can easily buy seaweed and I read that potentially some kinds contain b12.

A lot of the vegans I know didn’t go vegan until adulthood, so they aren’t sure, and meanwhile the meat-eaters don’t want to countenance it, so it isn’t necessarily easy to get unbiased info about vegan nutrition in childhood.

Thank you so much to those of you that gave supportive and informed responses. I agree with those of you that said that eating meat and dairy is the default choice, and that may change one day. Certainly for the climate it absolutely has to, but since there are ways to have a non-vegan planet friendly diet (not ruminants but maybe eg crickets, and yes, we sometimes used to eat thoseWink), it doesn’t resolve the question of ethics and morality and his deeply-held belief that animals are not here for our gustatory pleasure).

I feel like I should make it clear that he isn’t some terrible tyrant, he isn’t going to come and snatch away your burgers, he’s actually a loving and peaceful child who doesn’t want to hurt - quite literally - a fly. I just want to make sure he gets the best diet possible while he is under my care. Forcefeeding or blackmail aren’t in my playbook Star

You sound lovely OP.

Not sure if you saw my previous post but I do think engaging him in problem solving his own nutritional needs may work
He sounds thoughtful and responsible. I hope he can value his own health as much as he values others Smile

chocolatecerealcampingbrekkie · 26/10/2021 09:13

Are there any local organisations who can advise you on dietary issues?

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 26/10/2021 09:21

@MrsLargeEmbodied

afaik vegan milk products and cheese are expensive
The prices are pretty much equivalent actually
pompomsgalore · 26/10/2021 09:23

My advice is to go vegan with him, even if it's just a month trial and then reassess. That's what I did when my daughter wanted to go vegan. After the month neither of us went back to dairy or meat.
That's 8 years ago now.

Is your boy a fussy eater as my deal was you can be vegan but you can't be fussy and a vegan.

NoYOUbekind · 26/10/2021 09:31

If he's old enough to want to change his diet, he's old enough to take responsibility for certain aspects of it. Supplements being one of them.

I take Nothing Fishy and they can cause quite unpleasant burps (sorry if tmi!) so I take them just before I go to bed (lucky DH!). Everyone should be supplementing vit D anyway. Iron is an issue though - he should be taking his iron tablet with a glass of fresh orange juice to make sure he gets the most out of this.

I'd tell him if he can manage his supplements properly (with support but - crucially - without any drama) for a month then you'll look further veganising his diet.

But - and this is a huge but - there's just something niggling me that this is about control rather than 'the animals'. And that's a different story. I suspect if he was a girl people would have been talking about eating disorders already... do you think that's a possibility?

superstripeysocks · 26/10/2021 09:32

@WaltzingBetty yes you're right. I do judge parents who raise their children vegan.

And I have no issue with vit d guidance. Never said I did.

NoYOUbekind · 26/10/2021 09:33

@Chingchok

If I remember correctly, too much dairy can exacerbate iron deficiency; we were warned not to give him too much cow’s milk as a little one.

Lot of misconceptions about iron. Pumpkin seeds have more iron than beef, if I remember correctly. I make a dip with lime juice in, because iron in meat is indeed easier to absorb.

It’s not a black and white choice between supplements or animals.

AFAIK it's that dairy with iron reduces absorption. Full fat cow's milk is a great way of getting fat-soluble vitamin D into them. So give a glass of cow's milk as a snack, rather than with dinner, to hit both requirements.

(Obviously if you drink cow's milk...)