11 year old pescatarian wants to go vegan

[Chingchok]

Hi all

Having decided to stop eating meat at age 9, my son now wants to stop eating fish and dairy. He has never been able to eat eggs because of allergy, but now he has switched to oat or almond milk, and doesn’t want to eat fish anymore.

We support him, however I feel really torn and anxious about his nutrition. He already has an iron deficiency (he was always on the edge of it before stopping meat), vit D deficiency and he has suspected ADHD. I’ve tried vegan fish oils (Nothing Fishy) which are almost impossible to get him to take. He takes an iron supplement and vitamin D but I also worry about b12, EFAs…

A lot of vegan ready-made foods are relatively processed, and we are both allergic to several preservatives, so I make almost everything myself. Nut cheese, chickpea tofu, miso, a wide varieties of lentils, beans, nut butters and seed dips and oils. We almost completely stopped eating meat when he did, and so I already cooked 90 per cent vegetarian foods at home. When he has to eat out, ie on a school trip, fish has often been the only option available to him.

Oh and his school is nut-free. So no almond milk, cashew nut cheese.

I would really welcome concrete advice on how to make this switch, how to make sure he gets enough of specific nutrients, how not to spend my entire life in the kitchen…

Thank you in advance for sharing your experiences!

@LuckyLucyLoot

Well done for supporting him - there are so many health benefits to a plant-based diet, especially for a child. Lots of people who think veganism is drastic don't realise that red meat and processed meat are confirmed carcinogens or that dairy cows are pumped full of antibiotics.

The main issues with going from pescatarian to vegan will be omega 3 and B12. Supplements will help, but I also have image charts stuck inside my kitchen cupboard doors with good sources of each. (e.g. Chia Seeds are good for omega-3). You might find that he eats a lot of the good sources already. You could do the same for Vitamin D and Iron, and don't forget you need Vitamin C with Iron for absorbancy. I had low Iron levels for years (even when I used to eat meat), and it was only when I sorted out my Vit C intake that my Iron levels improved.

And ignore people who say children shouldn't take supplements. Vitamin D supplements are recommended for everyone in winter months.

OP’s son does not seem to be gaining any health benefits from his current diet let alone moving to a plant-based diet. If you need supplements then the diet is inadequate.

@Fucket

Making a child eat every last mouthful is child abuse. Sending a child to bed because they’ve got a face on because they refuse to eat anything you’ve lovingly prepared for them is not.

It is a sign of crap parenting though. It's just ridiculous, and suggests the parent has emotional problems.

There’s no point trying to force him to eat fish and dairy, and if his diet is balanced with these and he refuses them his nutritional issues will get worse.

You could make an agreement with him that if you allow him to drop fish he must take an omega 3 and 6 supplement and up his vitamin c and iron.

A plant based diet is one of the best diets you can have for health. I agree with @Neurodiversitydoctor eating meat is the no thought option. I was in this category for years until a serious health crisis. I had just never thought about it before. We are always told meat is healthy & essential.

It sounds like he eats a wide variety of foods. To be a healthy vegan you need to like eating plants so you are good on that front.

Hummus, bean spreads, falafel are good in sandwiches. Sushi is another good lunch option. Keep an eye on the iron levels and make adjustments. Dried apricots are good for calcium, iron & vit C and nice in porridge/cereal.

B12 stores in the body for a long time so I wouldn't worry too much about that initially. Iodine was the one thing I didn't think about when going vegan so now include a form seaweed regularly. Tesco do a seaweed salt alternative.

It took me a while to get to grips with it but I love my diet and most importantly feel good.

@MrsLargeEmbodied

i would say no to veganism unless you can afford the vegan products? when he is buying his own food he can go vegan

Vegan food isn't expensive

In the early 80s my brother and I stopped eating meat (we didn't know we were vegetarian at the time). There was no way we could have been made to eat meat or fish.
Children are perfectly capable of making ethical and dietary choices, and sending children to bed for their bodily autonomy/making them eat food against their wishes is hideous.

It seems you've posted in the wrong place OP - you've received some appalling replies.

A vegan diet absolutely can be done healthily and cheaply. And once you get the hang of it. easily.

Personally I would insist on the vegan fish oil (but then I always insisted my Fish eating DC had a fish oil supplement) At that age I would be giving them a general supplement any, as my DC would go though various phases of not eating certain things such as any green vegetables

As another poster said, don't worry about not being able to have nits for lunch- it's what he eats over a whole day, no in one meal that matters.

If you can find 7 easy recipes your whole family likes you'll feel more at ease cooking familiar dishes and won't feel you're constantly faffing. One for each day of the week. There are loads of vegan books out there now (If you have The Works near you they probably have a good selection at discounted prices, my local one does)

You sound like a lovely mum, OP.I wouldn't want some of the other posters on this thread as my parent

marmite has B12 anyway, and is vegan.

(OPs son is inspiring me... and I am on full google mode)

Take him to see a nutritionist.
I'm lifelong vegetarian, so have tried to teach myself a few basics, but don't take this as gospel, and please correct me if I'm wrong:
Being vegan, from what I understand, is better for those low in iron than being vegetarian as some diary products bind iron and prevent its absorption.
Iron rich foods are leafy greens, chickpeas, beans lentils, seeds, so its really easy to get an iron rich diet without animal products.
Vitamin C is necessary for iron absorption, it isn't necessarily true that your son isn't getting enough iron, it might be that his body isn't absorbing it properly. A glass or fresh orange juice will help.
A multi vitamin with vit C and D3 with help to absorb iron and calcium, which is another that vegans can lack.

@Beeinalily

Even the RSPCA said years ago the fish feel as much pain as mammals, and God knows they're not too fussy. Just saying. I was told off for being veggie when pregnant because my iron was low, and one thing I found useful was finding out that vitamin C makes iron absorption easier, also celeriac is rich in iron. Found these things out from my own research btw, the doctor wasn't helpful at all.

Celeriac isn’t rich in iron! www.dailyiron.net/graph/vegetables/11141_Celeriac_raw.png

@mangoontoast

How come vegans never seem to consider people's rights? Cashews are unethical and almond milk is terrible for the environment, especially for those living near the farms.

@mangoontoast

You haven't compared their impact to that of dairy milk have you?

A 2018 study by researchers at the University of Oxford showed that producing a glass of dairy milk results in almost three times more greenhouse gas emissions than any plant-based milk and it consumes nine times more land than any of the milk alternatives

Might be worth doing some research before you look foolish. If you genuinely cared about people and the environment, you'd be advocating a plant-based diet

@rrhuth in your opinion.

Allowing a NT child to dictate to a parent that they want to eat an even more restrictive diet when they are already malnourished is worse in my opinion.

If the OP wanted to feed her kids nuggets and chips every evening because they only eat ‘beige’ food, mumsnet would judge that as far worse I suspect. Both a beige diet and a vegan diet when already malnourished is still malnourishment. The OP’s child is way past the age of a pre-schooler who have no sense or reason and you do what you do to get something in them.
The OPs child has allergies and the school is nut-free. The child and the parent need to put their child’s health first.

Also you're assuming that no non-vegans consume cashews or almonds?

afaik vegan milk products and cheese are expensive

[quote Fucket]@rrhuth in your opinion.

Allowing a NT child to dictate to a parent that they want to eat an even more restrictive diet when they are already malnourished is worse in my opinion.

If the OP wanted to feed her kids nuggets and chips every evening because they only eat ‘beige’ food, mumsnet would judge that as far worse I suspect. Both a beige diet and a vegan diet when already malnourished is still malnourishment. The OP’s child is way past the age of a pre-schooler who have no sense or reason and you do what you do to get something in them.
The OPs child has allergies and the school is nut-free. The child and the parent need to put their child’s health first.[/quote]
Haha yes obviously it is my opinion, and your opinion is only your opinion.

It was the use of 'lovingly prepared' which tickled me, as if that affects the vitamin content.

Forcing children to eat food is never the answer. Better a relatively healthy vegan/vegetarian diet than a battlefield over meat. I don't think your approach does put the child's health first, just are just putting your need for control first.

Also assuming that vegans eat loads of avacado, cashews and Almond products?
I drink Oat milk and the biggest consumer of avacado in our house is DH (meat eater).
A vegan diet is generally best for health, environment and animal welfare.

@trumpisagit

Also assuming that vegans eat loads of avacado, cashews and Almond products? I drink Oat milk and the biggest consumer of avacado in our house is DH (meat eater). A vegan diet is generally best for health, environment and animal welfare.

No no! Everyone knows that vegans only exist on almonds, avocados and sanctimony

How else would the omnivores be able to continually dismiss their evidence-based arguments!

i would be wary
you say he may have adhd
might he also have autism?
he is using this as a form of control, watch out for obsessive behaviour op

@MrsLargeEmbodied

afaik vegan milk products and cheese are expensive

Vegan cheese is more expensive than dairy cheese. Much of what is in supper markets isn't that nice, and there's no need for vegans to eat it.

Meat is much more expensive, so even though vegan milk is a bit more expensive, overall a vegan diet is cheaper.

A friend was giving tips on feeding a family cheaply and I noticed lots of her tips were unintentionally vegan.

most of us have low vit d in the winter months

A vegan diet can be very healthy provided you do it correctly (and take supplements). In fact that is true for more diets. BUT…

Removing key nutrients from a diet without substituting them with something that provides similar nutrients (not similar appearance ) to make up for those being removed it is the best way to end up with a health problem. For example, the best way to ensure your kid keeps having enough calcium when vegan or allergic is not to find him something vegan that looks like milk or cheese but stuff him with broccoli. Sounds strange? Yes, but if you want to have a healthy diet you need to do your research and changing the way you cook and what you cook.

@trumpisagit

Also assuming that vegans eat loads of avacado, cashews and Almond products? I drink Oat milk and the biggest consumer of avacado in our house is DH (meat eater). A vegan diet is generally best for health, environment and animal welfare.

Avocado is absolutely dreadful for the environment

My ds1 turned vegetarian aged five, shortly after his dad did. As a family we have adjusted and I don’t eat any meat/fish in the house anymore, just provide some for ds2. I think it’s great that you are supportive, but I think we would really struggle as a family if anyone wanted to become vegan. Holidays are difficult as it is.

I think it’s great that you are trying to accommodate though. P

… personally considering he has allergies, has a limited diet already and it is already underweight, I would have not entertained the idea of allowing a nine year old to become vegan unless the rest of the family wants to become vegan. He can change his diet and eat a la crate when he is able to do his own cooking in a healthy and responsible way.

It is possible to get all he needs from vegan food, but it takes some research, and not everything is like for like- ie vegan cheese isn't fortified with the same nutrients as dairy cheese, but some meat replacements do have similar levels of protein and certain vitamins etc. Realistically he would probably need to eat a lot of veg, which depending if he likes it or not might not be overly nice. I wouldn't make him eat animal products though, there are plenty of swaps now even if they're not ideal.