Revolted by seeing others eat meat

[hibbledibble]

I am struggling with this a little, and wondering how to deal with it.

I am just starting being vegan with veganuary, but have been a lifelong veggie. Never eaten meat and have no desire to. The idea of eating flesh disgusts me.

I however realise that others have different beliefs and respect that. I don't expect others to be veggie around me.

Last night I went out with a friend for dinner. He got a huge plate of meat (pretty much 2 dead birds) and was pulling apart at it with fingers. The smell and sight was revolting for me. I didn't say anything or do anything as I don't think it would have been right, but honestly it bothered me a lot, and it is still bothering me the next day.

Any idea how I can best manage this? I accept most of my friends aren't veggie. Should I not go out for dinner with them? Is it acceptable to suggest veggie places?

But please, before commenting ensure what you're saying is factual.

Pot calling the kettle black eh Peggy2479

You're the one eating rotting flesh!

Most meat eaters eat fresh meat, not rotting flesh . You do realise that by using such emotive language and spouting incorrect facts that you are doing veganism a disservice? And you still haven’t answered Thehairthebod’s question.

I eat a mostly vegetarian diet BTW, but eat a lot of vegan meals. Militant vegans just give all other vegans a bad name.

PETA? Well nuff said.

Seriously I give up you compare a farming practice to rape and claim to be well educated. Well I have a good degree in biology and zoology. Have you ever told a rape victim that you think cows have experienced the same as them?
I have direct experience of animal husbandry, farming practice, slaughter and welfare. You refuse to see that things you have said are incorrect and also offensive and I'm the one making personal attacks!! How old are You? When have you being to a farm? Spoken to many farmers? What about scientists?

lonicerea
Vegans aren't part of some sort of tribe responsible for converting people, I don't belong to a group of vegans, I'm not doing anyone a disservice, because I'm not trying to provide a service.
I am just an individual with an opinion and a set of beliefs that animals should not be subjected to abuse.

If you think a link to a PETA propaganda video is an adequate response to a scientific argument then I'm afraid you're educated beyond your intelligence. You can't polish a turd.

"humans are herbivores"

Are you going to answer the question about Inuit people? What do you suggest they eat? Seaweed?

I have no reason to prove anything to you, but I received an excellent private education, I then went on to study A-levels at a well know UK college, now I am furthering my education at uni. So what. You don't speak from personal experience dealing with animals and you base all your knowledge on PETA propaganda. You disagree with people who have degrees in biology.

There are a lot of good reasons to encourage more people to eat less meat. Environmental and health concerns being two very significant arguments with sound scientific facts to support them.

As such, I can't for the life of me understand why some militant Vegans feel the need to spout utter rubbish and make extremely offensive analogies (to rape, the holocaust for example) in order to make a point that can be done so with logical and non emotive rhetoric.

I can only conclude that they enjoy (and are wholly invested in) the sensationalism and provocative "debate" more than they actually feel committed to changing people's perceptions - because such attitudes have the propensity to harden peoples opinions against a cause rather than win them over to consider an alternative point of view.

Absolutely confused that peggy doesn’t seem to be able to do the simplest google search on the digestive system, and what the body can and can’t break down.

I totally understand why people are vegetarian, I myself try to eat less meat but struggle with convincing the rest of my family, but that is my cross to bear!

This thread has shown me that I cannot overly sympathise with the vegan opinion for as long as there are people out there who compare farming animals for meat to rape/oppression etc. and/or spouting factoids (a factoid being an item of unreliable information that is reported and repeated so often that it becomes accepted as fact) with no consideration of agenda or stance.

Excellent post DarthArts (and excellent user name )

Exactly Darth

HA @darth... couldn’t have predicted my point just before I made it better!

OP I sympathise. It was me upthread who suggested Asian/indian/pizza pasta if you don't want to ask your friends to go veggie. Most people wouldn't mind missing meat for a change. Only you know your friends.

The thread seems to have been overrun by the rights and wrongs of veganism, which is a shame because I came in here because it seemed to be a 'can't we all just get along' type of query.

Peggy2479 please stop. You make veganism look foolish by repeating such mantras. Yes, amylase in saliva is for breaking down carbohydrate, just as the pepsin in gastric secretions is for breaking down protein. People are omnivores. They can eat pretty much everything. What they choose to eat compared to what they can eat are not the same thing. We don't have a caecum to digest a raw vegetable high cellulose diet but we still eat salad.

Thank you

I genuinely think some militant Vegans lose sight of their own goals tbh.

I understand it's a very emotive topic for some people, which is why is so important to present well considered, factual arguments to support your position.

Some posters on this thread seem incapable of grasping that they do their cause a massive disservice when they make wholly spurious assertions and make extremely provocative statements that have no factual basis.

The reality is that people who eat less meat are more likely to become Vegetarian at some point in the future. Equally Vegetarians are more likely to become Vegans than the general population.

If reduction of meat eating is the goal, the best possible statistical result is in starting (pun in this case is intended) at the top of the food chain.

The more people you can convince to eat less meat the higher the likely "conversion" rate to vegetarian/veganism in time and more importantly the overall reduction in meat consumption.

Having more of the population eat less meat is a better outcome than a few people eating non at all.

Convincing more people isn't going to be done by spouting emotive clap trap. It's about appealing to people with sound arguments (of which there are many).

I'm not vegetarian btw but I do think about animal welfare and buy my meat direct from a local farmer known for excellent standards of animal husbandry. It costs me more, but I eat it less as a result.

Agree with Darth again.

showme thank you for a sensible reply that answers the original question.

I do think this thread has become a little derailed, it wasn't intended to be a debate about veganism. I'm not a militant vegan (and have never bee a militant veggie either). I believe in living as I see right, and letting others ask me about this, if they wish. I think some vegans unwittingly put others off, by being 'evangelical'.

I can only conclude that they enjoy (and are wholly invested in) the sensationalism and provocative "debate" more than they actually feel committed to changing people's perceptions - because such attitudes have the propensity to harden peoples opinions against a cause rather than win them over to consider an alternative point of view.
I agree.
I'm a former vegetarian abd now eat a largely vegetarian diet with very low meat content. I have a lot of sympathy for people's personal choices.
But i can't abide the sanctimonious militants with excessively emotive language, the need to turn any event with food into a propaganda opportunity and genetally whining about how victimised vegans are.

One vegan friend of ours tried to argue that she was more environmentally friendly because she was vegan than my DH who eats largely vegetarian but didn't own a car and cycled everywhere. He did the maths. She was wrong. His lack of car massivepy outweighed her eating habits.

OP I'm sorry your thread got de-railed - I did post a response to your original question far upthread

However I do think it has led to an interesting debate.

One thing I would like to say - apologies for the additional de-rail- is that in general I think we all need to rethink our attitude to food.

As an example when DS was at primary school, parents were sent a questionnaire about school dinners.

One point I raised and felt strongly about was the "need" to have a vegetarian option and meat option every day.

I feel it creates a division where vegetarian food is seen as "special" when in fact it is simply food and equally that it's "important" to eat meat every day.

Students in Italy don't see pasta with a fresh tomato and basil sauce on the menu for lunch don't think "oh bugger, it's veggie day today" rather "yum it's pasta today".

I'd rather see children learn that food doesn't have to include meat and that's normal. It would be great imho for schools to serve meal options without meat a 2/3 days a week - and then be able to serve better quality welfare meat on the days they do offer it.

”These are all facts and indicate humans are physically not designed to eat meat, nor are we mentally.“

@Peggy2479 - if as you state, human beings are not designed to eat meat, why do we NEED vitamin B12 - a vitamin that you CANNOT get from a vegan diet without taking supplements?

And why does your biology A level trump the scientific degrees of people who have told you that your ‘facts’ are wrong? Can you not see that asserting you are right, in the face of such knowledge and qualifications makes you look both ignorant and arrogant?

There's vitamin B12 in Marmite.

RatRolyPoly

Yes there is b12 in marmite but that is a processed food with b12 added. The argument was that humans are herbivores naturally in which case vegans would not have to supplement with tablets or artificially fortified foods.

Sorry formerly I only meant that as a dietary "FYI" to anyone wondering where they could get their B12. I posted in haste!

I have to say I find the debate here insightful and interesting.

on another forum there is a teacher who asks about welfare of dc who are being raised raw vegan. i.e. how not to piss the parents off whilst still keeping the children's development under observation.

STDG
My biology A-Level does not "trump"
anyone's degree, not at all.
Having a degree in biology is impressive and admirable.
I just felt the need to state my education as I was receiving rather a lot of comments claiming I knew nothing about human anatomy.
B12- most animals actually get their B12 through their diet, they are also fed supplements. Along with that they obviously absorb it through the bacteria in their gut.
The whole B12 "situation" is obviously a valid issue when living a vegan lifestyle. But there are many simple solutions to this.
Just because humans need B12 does not mean a vegan diet is unhealthy, nor does it mean we need meat to survive.
Luckily in this day and age there are so many supplements and alternatives it makes going vegan easy.

@Peggy2479

Humans are the furthest possible things from being a carnivore. We're not omnivores either. We're herbivores. Our intestines, teeth, gut and stomach we're all designed to eat fruit and veg. The pH level in our stomach is too high to digest meat, our teeth are also blunt compared to a carnivore's.

Dear fucking god this is impressively wrong:

-Our stomach's pH isn't high- it's around pH 1 because it contains Hydrochloric acid.
-pH doesn't directly affect digestion (much). Enzymes digest our food. The protease in our stomach digests proteins. Meat is mostly protein and it digests fine in our stomachs.

-Humans are omnivores. There are people with relevant degrees (like myself) pointing this out. 2 minutes on google would sort this out for anyone remotely able to identify a credible source.

Why the fuck would anyone need to make up easily checkable facts about biology to support their dietary choices?
Why do you need to be right badly enough to post drivel, in order to eat veggies?

@hibbledibble. Sorry for contributing to the derailment, however I think it kind of provides an answer to your question: If you stop socialising with meat eaters and make a big fuss, you risk contributing to some unhelpful stereotypes.

@Peggy2479

Your food choices are yours and I respect them.

That said your comment "Luckily in this day and age there are so many supplements and alternatives it makes going vegan easy." is in conflict with the assertion that vegetarianism/veganism is a "natural" state for humans.

The fact that modern "food fortifications" make a non meat diet achievable actually supports the fact that humans evolved as omnivores - let's face it, the ethical cave person didn't have Holland and Barrett round the corner to buy supplements from.

I see from your posts that you feel strongly about this. That's fine - laudable even to have such a cause to believe in.

Which is why I'd gently suggest that rather then get swept up in a YouTube PETA propaganda black hole you think more efficiently and critically about how to promote your goals using the many very good, proven arguments to support the reduction of meat consumption.