Oxford uni (and just unis in general)

[law4569]

Hi all!

Just wanted some advice. My daughter is applying for spanish + beginners German and wants to do a law conversion after. She's decided she wants to apply to Oxford, Edinburgh, ucl, durham and bristol or warwick. I wanted to know people's experiences with these unis as durham and Edinburgh are very far from where we live + warwick we're unsure if it's good for her degree. For anyone whose children went to Oxford, did they do well at gcse? She got 999888777 but she's worried because of the context of her skl (she did okay) then she'll be disadvantaged. if anyone has any sort of experience on any of this id appreciate it :)

This sums it up perfectly

The entire pseudo intellectuality of shortlisting candidates and scoring them, is in my humble opinion entirely pretentious though and fake “objectivity”. It is so wankerish, it is unreal!

But then they have so many brilliant kids and they need to find a way to score them and that is just how they do things.

The conclusion is that if you do not get in especially for highly competitive courses so what! Plenty of other great unis around.

Totally agree with your final paragraph.
But I don't really understand your first paragraph. How do you think they should allocate places?

@barnanabas - I understand it from the university’s perspective as they need to justify their allocations.
From a prospective students’ perspective, just accept it is a bit of a lottery and a tickboxing exercise as well. Try and tick as many of their boxes as you can, and hope for the best. But don’t take it personally because it is an institution and all on their terms.

@Araminta1003 , yeah, fair enough. It's definitely an imperfect system and all you can do is apply and hope for the best. I think because the Oxbridge application process is more involved than for most other universities, it's almost inevitable that applicants get more invested in it. But nobody is guaranteed a place, so it's definitely well worth have other options you like on the table too. Fortunately, there are lots of brilliant universities around.

@barnanabas - I think for the 50-95% ability quintile it is basically a lottery between each other - however much they couch it as having a strong objective foundation. For those below, they won’t get in. And the outliers at the top always will although sometimes something does go wrong. This is for the very oversubscribed courses. So if you are in the applicable lottery quintile, then best not to take it personally.

Haven't read all the replies, but IMO there's far too much overthinking going on here. I imagine OP is trying to protect their DC by trying to work out if it's worth the process of applying if the GCSEs are likely to be a negative factor, and worrying if their DC will be disappointed if they don't get in.

But the point is, no-one on here can tell you definitively one way or another, OP. It would be different if you came on and said 'my child has 7 grade 5s, are they in with a chance?', but your DCs grades are fine and part of an equation. There are plenty of people who are rejected from Oxbridge with 10x9 grades and amazing A* predictions, and plenty who get in with less impressive grades.

If your DC wants to give it a shot, they should give it a shot - but it has to be up to them. And I would say, the application process is protracted and it's hard, if not impossible, NOT to become invested, and not to be disappointed if you don't get in. That's no reason not to try, though!

I hope this thread isn't going to go round in circles like the ones that poster started who wanted to go to Oxford but actually got a foundation year at Cambridge and couldn't decide whether to go or reapply to Oxford and there were constant worries about her grades. That saga went on and on.

I haven’t read the full thread but I’ve read some silly assertions.

Your DD’s GCSE grades are fine. My daughter got in to Classics with a 6 in English literature GCSE. My son got in to maths with 999998884.

The main thing is to make sure that she likes the Oxford course. It’s basically literature. If she doesn’t like reading it’s not for her. She should try to read some good books in a foreign language and be able to talk about them in an interview.

Languages is one of the easiest courses to get in to at Oxford (though it’s still not easy as such — and the workload once she gets there is intense) so if she likes the look of the course she should apply.

She doesn’t actually want to go to Oxford though. She wants to study the course and go home at weekends. Not the same thing at all.

Beginners German cannot by definition be all literature based! It will have to contain a lot of language in the first two years at least.

OP is your DD going to be OK going to a foreign country for an entire year if she is worried about being homesick at uni? It also means they come back to uni and many of their college friends on 3 year degrees have finished. That is why generally speaking MML students are often the adventurous confident types as well as moving abroad and living there etc can be quite a challenge.

It's not even clear she's looked into the actual degree to determine whether the content is of interest to her. It sounds to me as if she thinks that getting into ML is one of the easier routes to getting an Oxford place, because she wants that under her belt after her law conversion for her eventual legal career, AND she can go home for the weekend, because it's handily close to home.

To which I'd say (as someone who sat in on Admissions in an adjacent subject when I was a JRF), the OP's daughter is probably highly unlikely to interview well to the standard required -- of obsessive interest in and curiosity about the languages in question, their cultures and literatures for their own sake, etc, if all she really wants is an Oxford degree in something or other because it's close to home and will help her later on. What reason would she give for starting German? Was German offered at her school? There's also the MLAT, obviously.

@Araminta1003, genuinely, not really. From friends who did ML, the first year in the ab initio language is v intensive grammar, translation, oral classes etc to bring you fully up to the level of the language you did for A-level in a single academic year. As Oxford terms are only 3x8 weeks, that's fast-paced and will require you to do a lot of work on your own. Plus, depending on the language, you may do your year abroad in second year instead of third. (As a two-language student, the OP's daughter would have to split that year between two places.)

This might be useful for your DD, OP. It's a 2015 blogpost by a Magdalen 3rd year student reading Spanish and German, but she had German A-level, so not from scratch. Some things will have changed about course structure etc, but she gives a good sense of the general literariness of the degree and the weekly workload in first year in particular:

• 2 2500-word literature essays (yes, every week)
• 2 translations (these took maybe a couple of hours each)
• 1 poem to research, read up on and present
• Grammar work and/or a short translation for Spanish
• 1 practice essay or a presentation for my German oral class
• 8 – 12 contact hours a week

https://carambalache.wordpress.com/2015/03/28/should-i-study-modern-languages-at-oxford/

The other thing I don't think anyone has said that I think is worth thinking about is that these weekly essays which take up so much time don't count towards your degree. No marks attach to them. Some people find this liberating. Others would find it an incredible waste of time and energy. There's very little opportunity for continuous assessment, other than a project. (Oxford wants to identify the former type of student, and in fairness, the latter aren't going to want to apply.)

Remember she's going to have to go to two foreign countries, as a two-language student, which means double the bureaucracy, finding accommodation, adjusting etc. I think you're required to spend at least three months in each language area. Many of the Spanish ML students head to South America, for instance. Cost also an obvious factor!

@SuddenLightbulb - so even more challenging potentially. Although maybe they have contacts/family in a relevant country.

Gosh, did she start all three languages in year 10? One maybe but three? That’s so odd

You don’t have to go to both for the same amount of time. Often people go to one for a year and then spend long summers in the other country, working or doing a course.

The year abroad is the third year and there’s a big difference between being 18 or 19 and 20 or 21. No one among my cohort of very varied linguists was too shy or anxious to manage, although it was often tough at first.

OP, I taught for a couple of years at Oxford. I didn't interview, but friends did. They are looking for very high ability and strong interest.

Does your daughter watch movies in the languages she is studying, read novels/follow the news, listen to the radio/podcasts?

She should work hard on her fluency. People who love their subjects will already be doing this for fun, and not simply because they want to do well and try for Oxbridge.

I studied with and also taught people who were working like university students from quite a young age - reading widely around their subjects, writing several essays a week and so on. They enjoyed working independently, and were able to read and draft quickly, which made the workload manageable.

The interviewers are not looking to be 'fair' to the nicely-bright who deserve a turn - but to select the very best who apply, who they think will thrive on the programme. It's like elite sport.

OP I’ve now read all your posts. Your DD really won’t experience Oxford properly if she comes home every weekend. She won’t settle and make proper friendships if she’s absent for so much of the time. Plus the course is intense and she’ll need to be working for some of the weekend.

There are also residence requirements for Oxford — look them up.

Maybe building up her confidence during a gap year of work and travelling would be even more important than anything else.

I've just caught up with all OP's posts.

If your daughter is extremely able - exceptional and clearly gifted - that will make a difference. There isn't a strict scoring rule, where GCSE grades automatically rule candidates out.

She can give it a try. I gather that it's more straightforward now to 'upgrade' if students aren't overwhelmed by their insurance choice. So why not try? The process of trying will also help her general A-level preparation.

you can't really prove someone got bullied ill be honest

considering she moved country - she started 2 from scratch.

is classics like literature in a way? Do you reckon they won't mind 7s in English then considering language also holds weight? she does eng lit now and she loves it and is predicted an a*! or did she js do rlly well for her skl context

honestly fuck off please. Your username is clearly not someone who holds a single valuable judgement. There is nothing wrong with not being able to visit her mum for lunch or something and go back to Oxford. we live 15 minutes away. that is not far. stop acting like it'll ruin her life by not ever seeing her mum. btw maybe consider context because she never really sees her dad so we are inevitably really close.

Yes classics is like modern languages in that you study the languages plus also literature (and for classics, history and philosophy as well). So that’s why I felt my DD’s English grade was relevant to your question. It wasn’t held against her.

They do seem to look at people in the round (GCSEs, A level predictions, entrance exam if any, personal statement, reference, interview).

Good luck to your DD.