Oxford uni (and just unis in general)

[law4569]

Hi all!

Just wanted some advice. My daughter is applying for spanish + beginners German and wants to do a law conversion after. She's decided she wants to apply to Oxford, Edinburgh, ucl, durham and bristol or warwick. I wanted to know people's experiences with these unis as durham and Edinburgh are very far from where we live + warwick we're unsure if it's good for her degree. For anyone whose children went to Oxford, did they do well at gcse? She got 999888777 but she's worried because of the context of her skl (she did okay) then she'll be disadvantaged. if anyone has any sort of experience on any of this id appreciate it :)

There is this notion that admissions tutors 'know what they're looking for.' But, in our family's experiences of all this, I'm not at all sure.

DC1 applied first time and was rejected. Decided to have a gap year and applied again - was accepted. Finished the tripos in 3rd place. In fact, in this subject, the top 4 students after finals (who all got starred Firsts and were achieving in the 80-90% and over in exams) were second time round applicants, having been rejected first time.

Then, when this DC got to the uni, there had been 8 accepted for the subject, but 3 of them did not make the minimum grades so did not arrive. They had over 60 to choose from applying to that college, but almost half of the ones actually selected did not get A star, A,A! They took someone from the 'adjustment' pool' (a student who made the grades and met WP criteria) and ran the course with a smaller cohort that year.

Second DC applied and got in first time and did fine, but struggled more and just scraped the 70% in finals.

Third DC who is by far the most talented and self-motivated in her subject, by any measure, did not get in and did not want to reapply. We were told in feedback it was because of 'slightly less competitive GCSEs' - ie two 7s in Maths and Physics - even though these subjects have nothing to do with English! Interviews scores were very high, but they said they take a 'holistic view.' He went to St Andrews and had an absolute blast and a year in US. St A's is now no. 1 for English these days. This DC never looked back.

I guess what I'm saying OP, is treat the process as a lottery (mostly) and if she really is set on going, maybe look at it as a potential 2 year application process because many reapply and are very successful.

If she wants to stay near home, have you looked at Bath?

Also, I can't remember the exact name of the course, but one of mine was accepted onto a joint programme between Sci Po and Colombia. The first two years would have at the Sci Po campus in Menton in Cote d'Azur! It would have been amazing. Its was kind of a broader humanities-based programme that you could tailor to your interests, but they had to do French, plus one or two other languages. Then, Years 3 and 4, when they choose their 'major' was at Colombia. They get 2 degrees, one from each uni. It's quite expensive obvs, as overseas. But just thought I'd mention this.

Why does she want to do German, and what are the languages she already has? It's very different from Spanish and harder in some ways. Is one of the languages she already has a language with cases?

@law4569 Oxford is one of the most difficult universities to get in to, and very hard work even for the brightest students once there. As the main reason that you and she seem to want Oxford is that you live 15 minutes away and can have lunch together and she can spend every weekend at home would it not be a lot easier for her to apply to a university which she would easily get in to and then you move there too? Then she could actually live at home.

Just following on from this, it is an odd combination. Do all of your chosen universities even offer that as a degree?

Apologies, sorry, just seen she has German as a GCSE. I was confused by all the talk of ab initio languages.

I don't think it's a particularly odd combination. They are two of the more common languages for MFL students to take.

@Alouest yes I also thought that German was an initio. It seemed odd that the O P implied that her daughter had 3 languages but was choosing joint honours where one of them would be an initio.

My username was a change for a thread I started because I was concerned about health risks arising out of cleaning up a rats’ nest in my shed without a mask.

You still haven’t explained how she’s going to cope with the year abroad?

I’ve got a languages degree from Cambridge and I then became a solicitor. I’ve got some pretty relative experience. Look, apply, there is nothing to lose, but Oxford is not compatible with going home to Mum every weekend.

I give up. This thread started with the OP saying that her daughter wanted to study Spanish and German BEGINNERS. Later we hear she has a 9 for GCSE German. Which is true? It's too much for my old Edinburgh University educated brain.

Clearly German would effectively be starting from scratch because even a 9 at GCSE doesn't give you the tools to tackle a university course in any language. But it's good that she already has experience of it and knows she likes it. And she is good at it. I was just concerned that if she had eg French, Spanish and Italian that German might be a bit of a shock!

But I do agree that Oxford won't be compatible with going home every weekend and if that's really what she wants then another university that isn't too much of a journey might be a better shout. UCL would be an easy journey. Birmingham?

Actually I can probably answer that as one of my Cambridge languages was ab initio aka beginners: I had an S grade in it (Scottish equivalent of a GCSE) but they still treat you as a beginner if you haven’t done the A level. In fact, the majority of us in my “beginners’ ” class were not starting completely from scratch.

They organise their own parties though their bops!
I would much prefer that !
I think like anywhere you will get your quieter types ,more out going ones and so on

I assumed once we knew she had GCSE German that she would be doing German A level. Is A level English a course requirement? Otherwise it might be a risky choice. (Predicted grades aren't a bird in the hand). Also my two (A star for every GCSE and A level) were advised not to take 4 A levels as they don't count the fourth. But that was a few years ago, it may have changed.

Students in Oxford still go clubbing, as well as to college bops. At least my child's friends all seem to.

With respect to German, I guess they might wonder why she didn't do it for A Level when clearly capable of doing so.

@lightseeker - your experience reflects mine too observing many young people in the last few years. DD1 did get in but she wants to be an academic or work for the WHO kind of thing, so it makes sense.

For DD2, we have agreed she will apply for Oxford but if she does not get in we are looking at gap years and enrolling at the Sorbonne or a German or Swiss uni. It is surprisingly cheap. I still have close friends from my gap years in all the cities who will put her up initially. I worked so hard to get her an Irish passport and EU citizenship to make it happen. DS1 already went to ETH and then MIT - there are so many opportunities outside Oxford if you have an EU passport too and bother looking and are happy to encourage them that way.

That will almost certainly come up at interview.

Of course but Oxford is a totally different experience to London or even Manchester. I have a colleague who always says you can tell a Manchester undergrad apart from a Sheffield one straight away. Different students go for different things. If OP’s DD is quite reserved and introverted, Oxford will more likely be her scene.

As I say, I lived there for a while when I did my post doc and it was beautiful but tiny and after maybe 2 weeks I’d seen EVERYTHING, some twice and so got a bit bored personally. Cowley is the best part.

This is interesting.

DS got straight As in N5s, Highers & Advanced Highers (Scotland so no A* system here) & was school Dux. State comprehensive (no grammars here). Super bright but not even listed for interview at Oxford.

Offers everywhere else, visited all, chose Glasgow over the much desired St Andrews & Edinburgh as better course/vibe for him.

Has had an absolute ball. Just graduated with a very high 1st in Maths & Statistics. He's worked hard and partied hard & also worked part time (in a v cool pub), so had a very rounded experience. I genuinely think Oxford would have been a poor fit for him- you're right that it's not for everyone.

OP you seem very invested. Let your DD see each place & take the lead.

It will, but the answer will be the least of her worries if the answer to "why do you want to study xxx at Oxford" is that she wants to go home every weekend.

Yup, the OP is now being rude to people because they dare to suggest that this is a poor plan. Lots of kids these days commute to uni (always been very common here in Scotland too), DS2 is doing this & it works for him, no shame in it for OP's DD, BUT not recommended for Oxford. There are other universities near you, OP, consider those.

There's no need to be rude OP.

school stopped offering

wasn't being rude but attacking someone because their daughter wants to go home for 15 minutes I don't see the issue I'll be honest. maybe it's easy for your children but her dad died a few years ago and I don't think it's fair to assume that she won't want to come home. With the time, she'll probably come every 3 weeks but saying it's stupid to want to see me for 15 minutes (instead of going clubbing or something) - is not an issue.

I think the OP is frustrated because people are making assumptions. Seems to me the DC in question is talented at languages and has had some adverse circumstances. Seems like the DC is now finding their feet and working things out. If you have experienced adverse circumstances at school or for whatever reason, you may have chosen the wrong A level. I think it is fine to miss doing German and explain that clearly. It is OK to not want to do French and Spanish if you have a good back story as to why you do not want to do French.

I think as regards law though, it is important to point out it is a very gruelling career at the top level and requires huge amounts of resilience and confidence to thrive at. So if the DC in question needs confidence building long term, a year abroad is a good idea. Oxford itself is not the best place to build confidence though simply because there are so many brilliant and hardworking people around. And if you need time to process your life and find yourself via social connections and part time work etc it is not necessarily the best place because it places such huge demands/stresses on an individual.
It is very important young people figure out what they want in life. I think that is the most important thing. And they often need time to do that and perspective.

I didn't attack you, so please don't say that. I'm not aware of PPs attacking you either, just giving an opinion that they don't think Oxford is right if you want to go home a lot.

I've gently suggested that you may want to think of other universities that are also commutable/ easily reached. My DS2 is ND, so commuting for him is best, as he wouldn't cope living away. So, no, it's not 'easy' at all for all of our children. DS1 was completely different, they all are.

I'm sorry to hear that your DD lost her father, that's tough, but gently you do seem very anxious/ she does about 100% needing to get into Oxford/ a Russell Group at all costs. Putting such pressure on a YP (even if self-imposed) is never good. I already posted that DS1 despite top grades didn't get into Oxford, but has thrived elsewhere, & upon reflection it wouldn't have been a good fit anyway.

I understand why you're very close, but, again gently, be careful you don't become enmeshed with your DD's every move. Let her visit different unis & take the lead herself: catastrophising if she doesn't get to Oxford isn't helping anyone.

I wish her well.

This is a great post.

OP, I hope DD and you are privately considering the question of which teaching styles and curriculums are likely to suit DD.

I am also very sorry DD has lost her father, but she does sound a bit fragile. That is all the more reason to wonder whether the robust nature of teaching at Oxford is right for her. Look again at the typical weekly workload posted by PP!

No, IME we acknowledge that there is plenty of guesswork. There are too many highly qualified candidates. They develop intellectually at different rates; they interview more or less successfully for a variety of reasons, etc.

I sympathise with you. The most exceptional YP in my family attended, and thrived at, an excellent Ivy League PhD programme in America but was rejected by his dream schools (the top 2 in the world his field. whereas he ended up at a Top 10). In one case it was a near miss.

He quickly outstripped most of his peers from both of those institutions and made wonderful lifelong friends and mentors in the bargain.

You need to get on with playing the hand you are dealt. There are injustices in life that should be fought rather than circumvented or put behind one, but a university admissions decision is seldom amongst them.