Oxford uni (and just unis in general)

[law4569]

Hi all!

Just wanted some advice. My daughter is applying for spanish + beginners German and wants to do a law conversion after. She's decided she wants to apply to Oxford, Edinburgh, ucl, durham and bristol or warwick. I wanted to know people's experiences with these unis as durham and Edinburgh are very far from where we live + warwick we're unsure if it's good for her degree. For anyone whose children went to Oxford, did they do well at gcse? She got 999888777 but she's worried because of the context of her skl (she did okay) then she'll be disadvantaged. if anyone has any sort of experience on any of this id appreciate it :)

Most certainly did not say all can’t, some might not be able to though and they are clearly catered for and welcomed.

@ToffeeCrabApple Oxford expressly say they don’t evaluate extra curricular. They want effort put in around the subject. I do think drama, which gives confidence, is very useful but they very clearly aren’t expecting dc to be brilliant at non academics. I personally think it’s a shame but some kids don’t have the money for travelling to sport or learning instruments or in a school that take part in debating competitions and these dc should not be discriminated against and seen as lacking. I tend to think having a job is very good too.

What I think isn’t entirely fair is DD will be up against dc who are half Spanish. They will have been going to see relatives in Spain all their lives. They have a huge advantage and lots of cultural knowledge others cannot acquire and will be fluent steady. As a result I think they can find the tests relatively straightforward. It doesn’t mean they will interview well but they have had so much more input than dc who have barely been anywhere and done 1 MFL trip from school if they were lucky. I think there should be greater transparency around this. Most parents who write about dc doing MFLs on MN have duel nationality.

I think that you will find that the bar for accommodating disability by allowing a student to opt out of College life is very high. The aim will be to integrate them.

If their disability means they need to go home at weekends that’s what they will
accommodate. If you’re disabled you’re disabled, there is no bar to jump. In the same way they clearly accommodate young parents and carers. If a student has been offered a place and achieved the grades required they aren’t going to take said offer away. You apply to DAS after your offer and they bend over backwards to support students with their individual needs.

There are plenty of ND students and, for that matter, staff, at Oxbridge. Admission is not based on social considerations. However it is always a valid question whether someone can do well, relative to their own potential, with the teaching modalities employed.

As with all students, the tutorial system will suit some ND students and not
others. The consequences of a poor fit for an ND student or one with MH problems may be more severe, however. Support levels are pretty good in theory but require a certain ability to be proactive.

oh would you say her gcse's would act against her based on your experiences there? I thought since mml is less competitive it wouldn't be that much of a problem

dual nationality doesn't necessarily mean you're native from both places. it just means u've experienced living there

Why not just do law?

Not bad GCSEs at all btw.

I think you’ve made some good points but I think the admissions tutors may be able to discriminate. In my field background opportunities also vary and we adjust interviews accordingly.

did she have contextual or any special consideration? I don't know what to think about her results at this point! who knew a 7 in English and history could be THAT bad

Dual nationality means you are a citizen of two countries. No inherent residency requirements.

As her GCSEs are done and unfixable, you really need to stop obsessing about them. If she’s a brilliant candidate in other ways, they won’t stop her being interviewed. If they’re trying to winnow out candidates ranking equally after interview, they may stop her getting an offer. However, as you and she seem to be considering Oxford for reasons that have little to do with the degree content and the Oxford teaching system, it’s far from clear it would be a good fit.

What I'm saying, and what many others on the thread are saying, is I don't know. No one knows, and no one is going to be able to give you an answer (though as I said previously, she could consider contacting admissions at college(s) she's interested in for advice).
The Oxford selection process is thorough, demanding and subjective. They are choosing between strong applicants in an over-subscribed field (even in MFL!). They actually provide a lot of information on the process and one of the things they explain is that they consider students' GCSE grades (including in the context of the school the student attended). Your daughter has excellent GCSE results, but they are not as good as the GCSE results of many of the people she will be competing against. On that one measure, she won't score as highly as other candidates. That's just a fact.
But... the process is more complex than that, and GCSEs are only a part of the picture. Your daughter might interview well. She might have an excellent personal statement. We don't know.
I think, having been through the application process years ago, and having seen several young people go through it (both successfully and unsuccessfully) over the last couple of years, there is no point in overthinking it. If your daughter wants to apply she should. She might get an offer and she might not. No one here can tell you. That would also be the case if her GCSE results were 100% perfect.

I completely agree with @barnanabas above.
Excellent students are competing from all around the world. I know many who have and many who haven’t been successful and that hasn’t always gone the way that was expected. I have also known some who had sterling results who did not do well there and others, perhaps with less than perfect results, who flourished.
As so many others have said, it is important for anyone to approach applying to Oxford or Cambridge with the outlook of giving it a a go but also have somewhere else that they would be happy to go. That goes for any applicant, irrespective of their results so far. I believe that Oxford interview a higher percentage than Cambridge, which is a mixed blessing as the disappointment can sting more if they are rejected at that point.
It also really isn’t the be all and end all. I am just as proud of my DC who did not go as the one who did and the one who went to the least prestigious university is flourishing and out earning his siblings in a job he loves.

I studied French and Spanish at Durham and loved it but it's not for everyone. You need to choose the right college and be fine with being in a very (very) small town atmosphere (I know it's a city but it is tiny).

I did an overnight open day at Oxford, staying at Oriel, and decided not to apply due to the teaching system.

@Letsgoforaskip It’s usually the other way round - Cambridge interview more than Oxford. However Oxford interview around 90% for MFLs which means most look qualified on paper for the course. The interview comprises of tests though and then discussion of the outcomes,I believe. 40% get a place and therefore that’s a very good ratio when compared to many other courses.

It’s never purely a decision based on A level predictions and that’s why surprises occur. DC have to suit the Oxford system of tutorials and high work volume. Schools and parents often don’t really appreciate this aspect and I believe Oxford want engagement from dc and ability to articulate their view point clearly and logically. Schools don’t always encourage this and it’s not helpful to dc at an Oxford interview.

do you mean then if her personal statement, predicted, interview etc is good then she has a chance of an offer?

Oxford languages grad here, it’s a great choice! I obviously went in the days of the old grades so not really sure what 7s are exactly and how they are perceived. Do her school do any oxbridge prep classes? Do they have an advisor you can speak to about grades they recommend? As PPs have said the interview is the real application so make sure she is prepares if that’s where she wants to go. Also, does she have cultural interests? For instance Spanish/German authors, artists, filmmakers? Really support her in discussions of these.

There’s a world of difference between UCL and Warwick! Has she visited?

Having met other language grads from Edinburgh while working abroad, I honestly would not recommend it! I think the way Scottish universities allow breadth in the first year is probably very positive overall, but negative for language learning.

FGS, OP, what do you think everyone has been saying over nine pages?

Everyone who s interviewed will have a chance. Oxford academics have no interest in wasting their own time.

Sorry - just returned and picked this up from yesterday.

It was about 10 years ago so the details are hazy, but I don't think she even got an interview. Basically her only card was her fluency in French due to a bilingual upbringing and her academic performance and exam results were not of the standard to give any realistic chance of a place at Oxford - but the mum was adamant she should apply.

My point was simply that Oxbridge (and other unis) are looking for more than just fluency in a language - because the course will be challenging intellectually and not just focus on acquiring the language.

Otherwise any French/Spanish/Italian person could get in to study their own language on that basis!😆

I don’t know because I teach English Lit & American Studies and we’re not interested in GCSE results at Manchester but I know Oxford is more competitive so it may well factor into their decisions. MFL courses are closing across the country, they’re not very popular anymore so perhaps less competitive than other courses there which may stand her in good favour too.

She also needs to look at module content. I wouldn’t personally have enjoyed the content of Oxford’s English lit course for example. Where I studied undergrad we covered mostly modern literature with an emphasis on postmodern and American literature so that was perfect for me. Module content matters more than you’d think.

My friend's son went to Bristol and enjoyed it but found the accommodation hard to find and very expensive. The accommodation situation is so bad some students are living in Newport and travelling in by train.

What do you want out of this thread OP?
You've had pages of advice.
Basically it comes down to this:

1. No one can tell you whether she has a chance of an offer or not.
2. If she doesn't apply then she has no chance of an offer.
3. If she applies she might get an offer.

So therefore the conclusion should be that if she wants to go she should apply and see what happens. (And take onboard the advice to boost supercurricular activities).

That's it.

Bizarre thread

“2.1. Shortlisting
A decision not to shortlist a candidate conforms to current ML guidelines, according to
which candidates will normally be invited to interview unless they display at least one of the
following shortcomings:
• results in official examinations, especially GCSE, are not at a sufficiently high level
(note that the university assesses GCSE results by looking both at your performance and
at the context of how it compares to others at your school);
• results predicted for A-level or other impending official examination suggest that the
candidate:

1. is unlikely to succeed in meeting a conditional offer;

22. the school report contains clear negative aspects relevant to the general admissions criteria; • test results are a) in the bottom quintile for each of two languages, or b) a test result in the bottom quintile means an application in a single language or joint school or a language with a beginners’ language (except for any language where a LAT score is available) is not viable. Candidates who display one or more of the above shortcomings may nonetheless be invited for interview if the paper application reveals a clear justification for, or explanation of, the shortcomings and clear alternative evidence of the candidate’s potential.”

We cannot tell you if your DD’s GCSE grades are average or below average or above the curve against the particular context in the school where she sat them. If they are below and she is going to get a negative score there, but she was bullied and there are adverse circumstances and you can evidence that objectively, then provide the evidence?