Gross misconduct....what happens next

[Bobblesandwool]

I really need to voice this to someone who can help please. Frankly I'm sat here so worried, that my DH is going to lose his job.

He has a gross misconduct meeting, and been given the notes of the meeting. Mentioned his breaks being long, not fulfilling his job role. They do have a clock in and clock out system, and it did mention on the letter that they were satisfied with his break times. Went over his job role, about if he asked to move to a different location, what does he need to do.

After the meeting he was told that's fine, they will investigate and be on touch. We really can't afford to lose his job and I am so worried about this all. Any advice from anyone who has gone through this, or something similar? If he was at risk of losing his job, would they tell him in the meeting.

This was just a informal meeting between him and 2 managers, he wasn't told anything about this prior.

Any advice I can be given, I would be very grateful. He just says it'll be fine, but having never gone through this I am so worried.

If one of the 'charges' (for want of a better word) - is time keeping, yet the data clearly indicates - good time keeping, then he would be right to challenge the veracity of the entire complaint.

My guess is that it sounds like the other person might be trying to stitch up your dh to cover for his own failings, or maybe take your dh down with him. Other person was the one who went on a break when he wasn't supposed to (while your dh was already on his official break). And no the other person has tried to accuse your dh of being the one taking a break at the wrong time/too long. The management seem to be accepting that your dh took his breaks timely and clocked in and out correctly. But the other person possibly didn't.

This meeting sounds a bit like a fishing trip, trying to get your dh to trip up and incriminate the other person. Or it may be the case that management think your dh is covering for the other person, or that they were on a break together (when dh was supposed to be but the other bloke wasn't), and that could make your dh complicit in the misconduct.

He did mention his union and then it says ' I will carry on with the meeting regardless'

Who said that bit about carrying on regardless? Was that your dh response to them asking if he wanted union rep/independent witness present and he declined? Or did management say they were carrying on with the meeting regardless? Tell him never to attend another of these meetings without his union rep.

This all sounds like far too much responsibility for a minimum wage job.

I think this is spot on.

There's some good advice on this thread but also a lot of alarmist comments and jumping to conclusions. I work in HR so hopefully can help.

As worrying as it sounds OP, please be assured that it's completely normal for companies to meet with employees about concerns they may have informally and as some ppl have correctly said, no notice is required to do this and nor is representation a right for informal preliminary stages.

Based on what you've said, this hopefully won't progress further but I would advise him speaking to the union as he can share the minutes etc and they can give clear advice.

If he has 8 years service, they would be mad not to follow proper procedure therefore if this is to be taken further, he should receive a letter invite to a disciplinary meeting and that will make clear whether it's misconduct or gross misconduct and whether dismissal is a possible outcome. If he is considering resigning, there is absolutely no point doing it before receiving this letter and once he knows the risks.

That said, even if Gross misconduct, doesn't mean it will definitely be dismissal. It would depend on the exact nature of the allegations but if he cooperates, provides decent explanations, has previous good service, he could end up with a final written warning for example - I have seen this happen on numerous occasions.

I do need to correct a PP though, lack of suspension isn't an indication of anything. ACAS is clear that suspension is a last resort and therefore ppl can be dismissed if not suspended.

Not swiping his pass is a h&s breach but hopefully not one that would result in dismissal if has previous good service so hopefully all will be OK but please do get your DH to speak to union because as good as some advice on here has been, some has been confusing and incorrect.

It sounds to me like one or both of his colleagues in the shift mentioned are trying to throw him under the bus. I’m pleased you are contacting union/acas

Sounds like your DH has a snitch as a team mate. Snitches often do what they do to mask their own illicit activities or to deflect attention from themselves. Or to curry favour with management. If he was on a break your DH has a legitimate reason not to have answered the call. If DH has been clocking in and out correctly then the records should support his explanation .Now its up to the other party to account for why he did not follow correct procedure..

Snitches? Is it school holidays?

Honestly, your DH needs to contact his union urgently. He was basically refused the legal right to have union representation at his meeting and they are not allowed to do this.

No this is incorrect for an initial investigation meeting they don’t have that right.

I don’t get the reluctance to call union, you pay for it and it’s what they are there for. A very small but public part of trade union work is about national dispute and campaign. The vast majority is case work like this. Bosses may try and say it puts the case on a more formal setting but as already said here it’s never informal with this type of thing. Union now!

But it can be gross misconduct if you are getting paid to work and you ate skiving then that’s theft , well obtaining pecuniary advantage I suppose or fraud.

The issue is that taking extended breaks and not logging his time correctly has led to h and s risks which could affect other employees and the company. Employer needs to establish if the situation has arisen because of poor communication amongst those on duty or someone not being honest about their timekeeping. It may be that all three are being spoken to at this stage, to establish where the system has broken down and how. However your dh has not helped himself by not following procedures when swiping his card and effectively going awol. If he is not culpable the disciplinary may be stepped down or effectively just a byline in his employment record but GM can be serious and potentially a dismissible offence. Has he or the others been suspended?

An investigation is informal and can be done without notice. An employee has the right to accompaniment from another employee or a trade union rep if the meeting becomes “formal”. Disciplinary. However, it doesn’t sound like gross misconduct, more misconduct that would result in a written warning. So I’d definitely be bringing my union rep!

I had a similar situation, was asked to meeting my acting manager in one of the education rooms led to believe it was about annual leave. Was told they had a written complaint from another member of staff. The manager wouldn’t confirm what it was about but wanted me to sign a paper to say I agreed & that it would go on file. I said that is part of a disciplinary procedure & that they couldn’t call a meeting like that & expect me to sign a paper but they wouldn’t tell me what about. After an hour I said I am leaving ( my dad was having chemo I had to pick him up) involved the union & HR told to have a 3 way meeting with the staff member & the manager we did turned out she told the acting manager I was taking the manager to tribunal & was talking about it. I said I couldn’t have been talking about it as I was not taking anyone to tribunal ( it was another member of staff who was taking her to tribunal). I had had a conversation in private about her behaviour & how she was talking badly about people she made that into another conversation. Acting manager & staff member went away with their tail between their legs. Was very stressful but the truth came out & the shit stirrers got egg on their face.

Hey @Bobblesandwool how’s it going? Is DH cleared?