Gross misconduct....what happens next

[Bobblesandwool]

I really need to voice this to someone who can help please. Frankly I'm sat here so worried, that my DH is going to lose his job.

He has a gross misconduct meeting, and been given the notes of the meeting. Mentioned his breaks being long, not fulfilling his job role. They do have a clock in and clock out system, and it did mention on the letter that they were satisfied with his break times. Went over his job role, about if he asked to move to a different location, what does he need to do.

After the meeting he was told that's fine, they will investigate and be on touch. We really can't afford to lose his job and I am so worried about this all. Any advice from anyone who has gone through this, or something similar? If he was at risk of losing his job, would they tell him in the meeting.

This was just a informal meeting between him and 2 managers, he wasn't told anything about this prior.

Any advice I can be given, I would be very grateful. He just says it'll be fine, but having never gone through this I am so worried.

Yes he is apart of the union, I will tell him to be in touch with them. Hopefully they can offer some help on the situation..

I'm going to read this message and re- read and re- read again, and really hope this is the case.

My husband does night shifts so is not here for me talk to, and they are not allowed phones in the work space either so frankly not having anyone to sound off from is not easy..

So, is it something like the scenario DS was telling me about at work today (a colleague was dismissed).

They work 8 hour shifts with 2 x 20 minute breaks included. The breaks are unpaid. The team are split each day into first, second & third break. When it’s your turn to take break you clock out & then clock back in 20 mins later.

The colleague in question had been requesting third break but taking first break by tailgating at the door & not clocking out or in. He would then work the 20 mins through second break & clock out & back in formally for third break. So, the gross misconduct came in because effectively he’d been fraudulently claiming 40 minutes of extra pay each day for months.

Why it took months to question it I don’t know.

If it’s something like that then unfortunately it’s his own fault.

@Bobblesandwool I would think it is normal to interview all involved parties in a case like this. I’ve seen it at a former employer when some people were taking the mick with timesheets. We all got investigated, which was nerve wracking (even though I knew I was in the clear).

As others have it is an investigation meeting, no notice is required, if they decide to move forward with a disciplinary he will need to be given notice. I would ask him to read his disciplinary policy as there is no way I could make that gross misconduct under ours.

I understand this, and would completely lay the blame at his door for this, but on this one it even mentions in the meeting notes: we are satisfied with your break times, you are not taking extra long breaks which you have been accused of. ( can't remember the exact words, maybe in one of my previous posts)

That's what I think. Has he been fiddling his time sheets.

Even if this is all there is to it, your DH still needs to contact his union rep. He shouldn't just blasely assume nothing will come of it. The union has an understanding of what each step of these procedures mean and where they can lead to and will be able to advise him how to deal with it. Including ensuring that there is nothing on his record if he is genuinely not culpable, and perhaps even getting HR to deal with the colleague who has raised the complaint. This is one of those situations that he's been paying his union dues in order to have protection from. And you shouldn't have to be the one to remind him of it. But if he's not in contact with his union, you should insist he gets in touch with them.

Sounds like an investigation into a complaint, which must be taken seriously .

Does the letter say exactly what the next steps are?

Something is missing OP.
There should be a company policy re disciplinary proceedings and stages.
Opportunities to improve where required etc.
Gross misconduct doesn't fit into time keeping.
And as others have said, sufficient notice needs to be given in writing with opportunity to arrange a union rep.
Please try and establish facts and your husband needs union /ACAS intervention.

Okay. So what were the misconduct charges?
We need to know to be able to advise.

Ok so it may not go further, he will need to wait and see, someone has accused him of not clocking in and out, so effectively lying about working, they appear satisfied thays not the case, but will now check further,

it’s odd it came to this though.

Absolutely!
You pay your union subs like an insurance policy, so that your union will act for you, if the need arises. Your DH should have contacted thecwirkplace union rep, when he was asked to join the meeting and needs to contact the local/regional branch officer asap. I would have been on the phone as I came out of the meeting
It does sound as if the complainant is trying g to deflect from his own misconduct, though.

Nope nothing at all, it's more a minutes of the meeting that took place. His manager just said that's fine off you go to him at the end of it, back to work, and said they have to interview another member of staff too ( and told him who) , but they are still yet to do that, that has not happened at all. I did tell him track this manager down and see what he says. He handed him the notes yesterday and said nothing again.

I will certainly be encouraging him to do so tomorrow, I know he would rather not but I agree, this colleague needs to be spoken to. You can't just leave it be, especially if you have to continue working with him

Has your husband been suspended?
if not then it will be very difficult to then dismiss later on, not impossible but difficult as your husband/union could argue why is he being allowed to attend work and complete his tasks if he has allegations of gross misconduct.

He needs to speak to his union rep immediately as your posts make little sense and he needs factual advice.

Edited to add: I have just read your updates. Was this meeting a fact find investigation on the back of an allegation made by another employee?
Your husband isn’t entitled to a rep in an IM however the business has the right to meet with your husband without notice to investigate the allegations and ensure there is no risk to the business. It sounds like he was told to return to his duties so again highly unlikely he will be dismissed as they clearly don’t think he is a risk.

I would resign now. Being fired for gross misconduct will massively affect job prospects going forward.

Sounds like hes lying to you and gross misconduct means they dont like him theyve had enough and want to get rid of him or he isnt doing all the things they say hr isnt doing in which case they want to get rid of him, gross misconduct is the enf of the line

No he has not been suspended.

I'll be honest I'm trying to answer all the posts as I am finding this very helpful. Am commenting from what on the document too, as he left it with me today. I've explained literally everything I can, I'm really sorry if that does not make sense.

Having never been in this position at work, it's not something I understand or even know how it is dealt with.

My wording may have been wrong, as this was clearly a meeting to decide if this goes further into gross misconduct or not.

I'm glad. I have investigated complaints before and you have to investigate and rule out employee error or misconduct first - because honestly, lots of incidents are caused by those things. If you are not expected to answer calls on your break and he can demonstrate he is clocking in and out properly then he's not the problem. The issue is someone called for support and didn't get it and depending on what he does, that could be really serious. Either that person is pissed off and making allegations or they are just trying to rule out your husband and question the guy who didn't respond. The last investigation I did, none of the staff were at fault. A new policy has not been communicated. Maybe they need to look at how work is allocated or scheduled too. It's not nice but try not to worry. I also echo talking to the union. If there are unsafe working practices or systems they should know. Besides supporting your husband.

OP, that’s one thing you don’t do! Your DH absolutely cannot go and address this with this colleague. The complaint may have been made in good faith, it could have been malicious (the investigation manager will decide that). But addressing this directly with the colleague can be seen as retaliation, same as avoiding him afterwards etc and that is misconduct in itself.

Stop filling in the gaps and read OPs posts.

Saying stuff like that isn't helpful and is actually quite nasty.

I edited my original post but wanted to reply as can understand how worrying this may be and if you have no experience of managing people and dealing with disciplinary cases it can be a minefield.

I have just read your updates. Was this meeting a fact find investigation on the back of an allegation made by another employee?
Your husband isn’t entitled to a rep in an IM however the business has the right to meet with your husband without notice to investigate the allegations and ensure there is no risk to the business. It sounds like he was told to return to his duties so again highly unlikely he will be dismissed as they clearly don’t think he is a risk.

It sounds like he was told to return to his duties so again highly unlikely he will be dismissed as they clearly don’t think he is a risk

not necessarily, we recently dismissed an employee for bringing in an illegal substance in to work. Not using it, just fell out of her bag clearly from the night before. She still worked all her shifts up until we let her go

Hes not scanning his badge because hes lying and doing stuff onsite which he shouldnt be doing, also if hes on site and not on record yes thats health and safety huge huge issue as they place could burn down and they wouldnt look for him as hes not on site, hes also probably fiddling his hours either to earn extra money or not work the true hours in his contract,