Gross misconduct....what happens next

[Bobblesandwool]

I really need to voice this to someone who can help please. Frankly I'm sat here so worried, that my DH is going to lose his job.

He has a gross misconduct meeting, and been given the notes of the meeting. Mentioned his breaks being long, not fulfilling his job role. They do have a clock in and clock out system, and it did mention on the letter that they were satisfied with his break times. Went over his job role, about if he asked to move to a different location, what does he need to do.

After the meeting he was told that's fine, they will investigate and be on touch. We really can't afford to lose his job and I am so worried about this all. Any advice from anyone who has gone through this, or something similar? If he was at risk of losing his job, would they tell him in the meeting.

This was just a informal meeting between him and 2 managers, he wasn't told anything about this prior.

Any advice I can be given, I would be very grateful. He just says it'll be fine, but having never gone through this I am so worried.

i suggest the real issue is that the 2nd person on shift, who should have been there to answer the radio as your DH was legitimately absent, was actually skiving.
So the fraud was carried out by him, and to take the attention away from that, he has accused your DH of being the reason for the radio not being answered.
Thus DH is part of the investigation, has effectively been cleared - per the comments on no concerns over extended breaks etc - and now the investigation will move on to examine the potential absence of the complainant.

(apologies if this is a cross post with anyone else; I only read as far as 22:48 & need to sleep!)

Why is your DH resistant to contacting his union rep, OP?

Yes he has

Oh stop it the managers have indicated they are satisfied he's clocked in and out properly and not extending breaks.

You can totally contact ACAS and the union. If union reps get advice from ACAS!

We once had a night security guard who would sleep on shift. He was found tucked up in the camp bed he'd brought in. He was dismissed for gross misconduct.

If they find him guilty it will be instant dismissal which in my mind is why theyve gone for gross misconduct because thats what they want to do , they just have to go through the process to get there

Not helpful at all to OP, who is already confused and upset about her DH's situation. Resigning when DH has not yet taken advice from his union would be rash and foolish.

I'm not being funny but my husband is a min wage job, he can't be paid extra ever and certainly not fiddling his hours for anything, it genuinely would do him any favours.

He isn't resistant to constant the union, in fact he asked this in the meeting and was told, we will get on with this regardless of this request. It's just something we have not had to do before.

It's not the best workplace, and this does happen often. He mentioned to me other do worse when it comes to break times, if they have looked at his records and said it's fine I can't really see how they would turn around and say no now.

The evidence OP has given does not point to that outcome. She's come here for help in working out what's going on, not alarmist predictions of what may happen next.

Thank you to all who have answered my questions, and stuck with me through this.

Also those who have answered questions on my behalf

To panic react is worse, one step at a time, union and then seek the advice further. And husband just needs to polish up.his working practice, which is normal after having been somewhere for such a long time!.

Its what happens no one keeps their job after gross misconduct thats a fact

Unless you are caught in the act, there has to be an investigation. Theres no reason to assume he will be found to have committed gross misconduct.

Good that your DH is not resistant to contacting his union. I wonder if you and he understand clearly that the union is there to support your DH. He doesn't need to ask permission of his employer to contact the union. He should phone tomorrow, in one of his breaks if necessary, to get the ball rolling before the weekend.

I think this is right.

The person who didn’t answer the radio is being investigated and have tried to deflect blame on to DH. So, they’ve said it’s not their fault because DH always takes longer breaks than he should, or that whatever skiving they were doing is ok because ‘everyone does it’.

The managers have had to check DH’s punctuality & breaks to prove the other person wrong. If they are disciplining the other employee, they will need to make sure they are acting fairly.

The report seems to say that DH has been cleared of the accusations against him. So hopefully his manager will be able to reassure him that he is not in trouble.

That's not the point I am making. Of course he would lose his job if found guilty of gross misconduct and of course he would struggle to find another job. But your suggestion that he resign now, when the admittedly rather confused second-hand account given by OP suggests his employer is investigating the possibility of misconduct based on a complaint from a colleague and has sent him back to work, is irresponsibly and unhelpfully premature.

Could he be lying to you? Or just not telling you the whole story? Could it be sexual misconduct?

Incorrect. Only have a right to be accompanied at a disciplinary hearing.

This is exactly the sort of thing one pays union dues for. He must contact them, regardless of what happens next.

I was accused of something that would have been gross misconduct. I was not suspended. I was very, very glad of my union membership- and as the employer didn't have a recognised union, my rep came from central office - it was his full-time job.

The paperwork I had was very clear about timelines, about potential outcomes (including dismissal,) and that I could have a union rep attend with me. It was made very clear I could not discuss it with colleagues, so my manager was very surprised when I said, "I can't go go that meeting, because it's when I've got my disciplinary with HR," because he didn't know. To this day, I doknow who raised it to HR, though I have my suspicions.

As my union rep pointed out, they were right to investigate, but if they'd done their job properly, it shouldn't have got past that point. I knew I was innocent, but the fact it went to the disciplinary I just didn't know how it would pan out. It was incredibly stressful. But the union rep, it was just his normal day job, not potentially the end of his career, so he got me through.

In summary - it's why he's in a union. Use it.

I did. I was innocent. So it's not a fact.

I can honestly in all confidence say this is not the case. His work place is very male dominated.

So sorry to hear you are going through this. Try to support your husband as you are already doing. Like another person said, it looks like this is the initial reaction to an allegation, for this part no letter of invite is required. It’s called fact finding although some of the questioning is a bit odd… in relation to being asked to do extra duties without defining what they are especially when there is a health and safety concern. It may at times be risky for him to do other duties…

At this stage depending on the allegation, they might need to talk to other people who were also mentioned (if any). After that they might come to a NFA conclusion. Or they might decide the need to do further investigation, they will then invite him to a meeting where he will have the ‘right to be accompanied’ and he can attend with a union rep. A union rep can support but a colleague will be limited in what they can do in terms of support.

Personally , I would prioritise union rep, read the disciplinary policy to see if they are following what it says - some policies outline what falls under gross misconduct and just misconduct. After reading the policy and you notice that they did not follow what it states I would also contact ACAs cause you really have nothing to lose as they can only advice you on when to come back to them if it’s too soon.

The burden is on them to prove that it was gross misconduct so your husband needs to do all he can to also gather his evidence and take any copies that he would like looked at, tell them who else was there (if applicable), just give as much information as possible. If they call him for a meeting he can also ask for a break if it all gets too much.

it doesn’t read like gross misconduct to me and I wish you and your husband all the best. Try not to worry so much.

Absolutely!!

@Bobblesandwool - it is vital that your husband cooperates with the process and plays it by the book. He should not communicate with the colleague who may have accused him in any way at all.

Wise words

It sounds like someone has made a complaint, so they have to investigate - but seems from what you have said they the evidence shows your husband has been doing what he should have re swiping cards etc.

I would agree with still contacting his union to make sure this is all dealt with properly.

there was mention in a previous post of him speaking to another colleague? I would advice against this - meetings of this nature, even “informal” are typically treated as confidential, so speaking to someone else about it (apart from union rep) could actually get him in trouble, even if he did nothing wrong in the first place!

hopefully this will all come to
nothing, but appreciate it’s a worry for you right now