My sons teacher was awful to my toddler and I’m still a bit confused and upset about it

[headlightshiningbright]

My ds (5, in reception) has not had a good week at school and got into quite a bit of trouble. His teacher wanted to speak to me about it which is fair enough. I am supportive of the school and I have hopefully made it clear to ds that there cannot be a repeat of this behaviour.

However, in the meeting, my nearly three year old kicked off a bit. There was a club going on next door which she wanted to join in and she ran to the door and started crying and saying she wanted to make what they were making. My DS’s teacher spoke really sharply to her, saying her name and very firmly ‘no’ - I can’t honestly say it was shouting but wasn’t far off. She then carried on telling her off.

To be honest the whole meeting felt very confrontational and while I sort of understand she wasn’t pleased with ds it felt like my parenting had been tried and felt lacking and that she needed to step in.

I don’t even know what the point to this post is! I guess I’m just wondering if others would feel a bit peculiar about it? Intentionally or otherwise it was incredibly undermining and felt horrible to be honest.

This is where I totally get confused about "it takes a village'. It seems it only takes a village when the parent wants something from the villagers and that doesn't include telling thier kids off for misbehaving. As a child I would have been mortified if an adult told me off for being naughty or disruptive and I would pray my mum didn't find out because I would have got another earful.

I think the comments here have been unnecessarily harsh to you. On MN nobody has ever put a foot wrong, it would seem. Toddlers are to be intercepted before they even open their months, obviously! 🙄

If I were in your shoes I'd be politely expressing my concern to the school before DD starts there and asking if it's at all possible to have a different teacher for both. Say you want to move forward positively but feel disappointed by the overreaction.

I certainly don't think it's necessary to be sharp with a not-even-three year old who isn't doing anything dangerous or mean.

Maybe the teacher was mindful of not disrupting whatever ‘hedgehog’ activity was going on. You just don’t know. As a trainee teacher I was bullied by a head of year whose classroom was next to mine and would make my life a misery if any disruption interrupted her classes…or the teacher might just have had the week from hell and your toddler was the final straw. Having been at the chalk face I have endless empathy for that teacher.

But this thread is split as far as I can tell. The ones who say you should parent better and that there are very few excuses for poor behaviour. And there are the other half who see ‘poor behaviour’ as just part and parcel of bringing up young children. I am with the first group.

My children were told to behave - yes even at 3 - they would have been told that “mummy is having a serious chat with Archie’s teacher and you must be very quiet and sit still. It won’t be long and then we’ll go home and you can do x, y, z.” You set the expectations before you go in. Same applies to your son. He should have had some notion that splashing in puddles should only be done with consideration to those around him.

If you constantly talk to kids about their behaviour in relation to empathy and respect for others it becomes ingrained over time. But clearly some parents aren’t bothered about those values, they just think children should do what they do.

Totally not okay of the teacher to tell off your toddler, and I think you need to stop automatically siding with the school and consider whether this teacher's harsh responses to a 5yo are actually triggering his behaviour issues! What is he like at home?

Oh, don't worry about me, thanks. 🙄

Why not just post your own view rather than make a shitty remark to me?

the premise of the meeting makes no sense either
Firstly it’s about a child with documented hearing problems not hearing instructions from a TA. Plus your son couldn’t have predicted mud going on another kids face - he’s only 5
secondly, your child was one of several climbing on tables - that should not happen in a class, the teacher should be able to stop that before it even happens - what does she expect you to do? I can understand needing parent to step in if their child is being rough or rude in class, but if he generally responds to the instructions he hears, then he sounds like a good kid.

No, I think it was about general silly behaviour and poor choices, as they put it! And he does know better than to stamp mud into other children’s faces and to climb on tables. I expect better from him and have hopefully made that clear, but I also know when he’s caught up in the moment he doesn’t always stop to consider whether it’s a sensible thing to do. I think in some ways he is a bit immature - I know he’s only five but he doesn’t have great impulse control even allowing for that. Hoping it will improve with time.

In what way didn’t I respect her time? I’m genuinely asking <lost>

I’m glad, OP. Please don’t worry! You are not one of ‘those mums’ (the stories I could tell omg). Best thing you can do now is focus on your DS (which you clearly are) and work with the teacher, but keep your eyes peeled for future instances of similar behaviour from her. I like a PPs suggestion of sending an email to establish next steps.

On another note I also make a point of speaking to my charges in front of their parents in the same place way I would speak to them without their parents, otherwise you are setting a false precedent for everyone. Sometimes this means the way I set boundaries is more firm than the set up some kids have at home (again not saying this is you). Some of my parents are anti-no which is not the case at my sessions. I always try and communicate with kindness which is where the teacher was not at her best or most patient in this scenario IMO.

I think you’ve had some very unfair comments on here.
What sounds like normal behaviour from a 3 year old, added in they could probably tell your attention was elsewhere, and probably feeling a bit stressed with the situation of the meeting. All this at 3:30 pm, tired, hungry, coming into the witching hour.
I’ve had the same when my children were that age and the TA took my 2 year old off into a corner to play while I spoke with the teacher impromptu after school because of DS’s behaviour.

It's alarming that you let 2 year olds look after themselves at home while you pick your 5 year old up.

Respectfully, I think your statement is a gross generalization and it isn't clear. Children's behaviour is developmental, and try as we might to correct, prepare them for scenarios, reprimand, etc doesn't guarantee compliance.
I am a bit authoritarian in my parenting style, and from my experience, even though I teach manners etc, and am insistent on manners, my lovelies 🙄 still don't listen 100% of the time. (Much to my frustration). I'd go the other way and generalize that when you witness a child's "bad behaviour" the parent is about to step in, waiting to see if intervention is needed, silently counting to 10 to avoid exploding, etc.... I try not to judge. 🤷‍♀️

"clearly some parents aren’t bothered about those values, they just think children should do what they do."

Bit baffled by the majority of the responses here! I'm guessing most of the posters are well out of the toddler phase and have forgotten how a meltdown can come with zero warning. If you'd kept her glued to your side instead she'd have inevitably interrupted the conversation (it's just what toddlers do when adults speak and they don't fully understand what's going on) and you'd have got stick for that too.

None of this makes you a bad parent; just the parent of a 2/3 year old. So I too am surprised at the teacher's reaction but suspect it might have been a bit of autopilot, as if DD were just another child in her class. Hope the week ahead will be a smoother one for you all💐

Not quite 3 is still a baby you absolute nut jobs, only on Mumsnet is a nearly 3 year old too old to be having tantrum. And if reading about her asking 'my make a hedgehog?' and being told that no, she could not make a hedgehog didn't break your heart a least a little bit you have no soul.

I know. A 2 year old child gets upset for a few seconds. Loads of posters apparently just had a quiet word about expectations as they come out the womb, so they never would have ever been upset about anything.

My children are much older. They are absolutely lovely human beings. They had rules and manners drummed into them, and still somehow got upset after the age of 2.

headlightshiningbright

What is the difference between firm and sharp?

@headlightshiningbright sorry you've had a rough ride on here tonight, think you should give yourself a break and you've been judged very harshly.

What's the comms style usually like with DS teacher and the school in general?
I think the teacher was probably fraught at the end of a busy trying day but should not have reacted the way they did. They put you on the spot and asked you to attend a meeting at the end of the day - your DD is 2 and her behaviour sounds normal.

My DS is 5 (has ASD) - we were called in a few weeks ago due to his behaviour- normally he's great but we had a 6 wk period where he was wild. The tone of the teacher, head teacher and school psychologist was supportive and empathetic - "we are here to help" not "your a rubbish parent". At this age I don't think there are bad kids. I'm grateful for the schools approach and the way they handled it as they recognised it was out of character. We kept a behaviour chart to log DS behaviour and spot patterns and triggers. We realised tiredness and hunger were big factors influencing behaviour and since we take him home for lunch he's back to normal. Previously he wouldnt eat in school so had been hungry all day. He also couldn't fall asleep at night but melatonin fixed that. People are so quick to right off kids/parenting. At the age of 5 kids have good and bad days and that's normal.

"It is nobody else's place to parent your child, unless they are completely wild "

The response of a liberal parent. Meanwhile the rest of us suffer the end effect.

I have sympathy with both OP and the teacher, OP because her DD was spoken to harshly by another adult and the teacher because at the end of a working day a three-year old she had never met before was wandering about her classroom, which is after all her workplace, unrestrained by the parent.

OP, you didn't need to be in the awful position of this small incident, which DD will have forgotten, nagging at you for days. First, you could have avoided it all together by sitting DD down and giving her a book/jigsaw/crayons and paper from your bag to occupy her while you and the teacher talked, explaining that you were going to talk to the teacher for a short time and that then you would be going home/to the shops etc. Second, as your DD was moving around the classroom, you could have interrupted the teacher, saying 'Let me deal with her' by going over immediately to hold your DD's hand and leading her back to where you were.

From your account, it sounds as though working on being more assertive with other adults would help send out the unspoken message that you are in charge when it comes to your children. I do hope you can put this incident behind you because it's not good for any parent, amongst the myriad things we have to do, for a chance 15 minutes to be taking up so much head space.

What is wrong with that is that the 3yo is not one of her pupils. It's not her place to tell her off.

if she wants child free meetings she needs to organise them in advance not spring them on a parent at pick uo.

One of the reasons I am wide awake at midnight is because I am very worried about ds, but equally I don’t know that it is helpful to fill the thread with exclamations about his terrible behaviour.

She wasn’t wandering about the classroom @IdaGlossop . She was standing by the door pointing at it and crying.

I think people are missing that the ops dd ran to the open door where rhe club was declaring she wanted to make a hedgehog too.
I think the teacher probably spoke sharply to try and stop your preschooler in her tracks before she disrupted the club, rather rhan being concerned about her wailing. She isnt a student of the school and You should have had a hold on her not leave her free to roam about the classroom.
Your 5 yo Kicking mud at other children and standing on tables at lunchtime sounds like pretty extreme behaviour. I imagine the teacher had had a gutful of your badly behaved children for that day. I think you need to speak to your HV about getting help with your parenting.

Perhaps you could look at other schools, he wasn’t the only child climbing on the tables. And see if you can sound out any sympathetic mums discreetly. You might find out the teacher can’t control the class and lots of kids are mischievous because they know they will get away with it.
trust your instincts

@headlightshiningbright i have read all your comments.

You have expressed a few times that it was the feeling of the whole meeting that has got you perturbed - you felt it was antagonistic from the start, that you were being admonished when trying to gather further information that might help you apologise to the child who ended up with mud in their face and that the teachers sharp attitude to your 2 year old child was based on their previous interactions with your 5 year old. This on the background of you being dragged into an unexpected after school meeting about your 5 year old behaviour (which you fully understand is unacceptable and plan to help to correct), AND a poorly toddler not sleeping well. . I completely understand why this has upset you. As many have said before, toddlers will toddler and your 2 year olds behaviour isn’t a reflection of your parenting ability and the teacher is wrong for being unnecessarily adversarial throughout the meeting.

I also think 2 things can be true and on the issue of the teacher telling your toddler “no” and “you know what no means” - I just can’t get worked up about this. I have an only just 2 year old who I say no to a million times a day - in fact no is her favourite word I’m sure because she hears it all the time. She’s in nursery 4 days a week and I’m under no illusion that staff there will correct behaviour and not always in the way that I do it. A few other PPs saying that no one has the right to tell a child off except their parents - I really struggle with this and personally think it’s good for children to learn boundaries in a variety of different settings and in different ways. You might tell your child off in a particular way but it’s not going to fundamentally break their spirit if someone else is more sharp with them on one occasion.

I suspect the teacher is so used to correcting behaviour they have instinctively said what they would say to another child they teach, not a 2 year old. It’s one of those moments you kind of roll your eyes and move on. My PIL have said to my toddler a few months ago “stop being naughty” when she was restless and when out for a family meal - and in my head I’m like “she’s not being naughty, she’s being a 1 year old, who can’t realistically be expected to sit quietly for 2.5hrs at a Sunday dinner” - I feel like it’s one of those situations except you’re perhaps overthinking it because of everything that’s happened with your 5 year old earlier.

You stated in one of your posts that your daughter is timid and being spoken to like that would have upset her. But isn’t it the case that toddlers are upset about just about everything they disagree with, until they’re distracted seconds later by something else? I really don’t think this will have had an ongoing impact on your daughter although I do fully appreciate why it has upset YOU in the context of everyhring else that happened in the meeting. You say you have other reasons to be considering moving your child out of the primary school. Perhaps if that is the case you can arrange a meeting with the school / teacher and try and discuss your concerns and get more of a feel of what this teacher is like. In summary : Could she have dealt with the overall situation better? yes. Was her treatment of your child unacceptable? No . I hope everyone is better and sleeping better soon and sorry some the posts on here are unhinged - again another moment where you have to just laugh / roll your eyes and think tell me you’re not parenting a toddler without telling me