My sons teacher was awful to my toddler and I’m still a bit confused and upset about it

[headlightshiningbright]

My ds (5, in reception) has not had a good week at school and got into quite a bit of trouble. His teacher wanted to speak to me about it which is fair enough. I am supportive of the school and I have hopefully made it clear to ds that there cannot be a repeat of this behaviour.

However, in the meeting, my nearly three year old kicked off a bit. There was a club going on next door which she wanted to join in and she ran to the door and started crying and saying she wanted to make what they were making. My DS’s teacher spoke really sharply to her, saying her name and very firmly ‘no’ - I can’t honestly say it was shouting but wasn’t far off. She then carried on telling her off.

To be honest the whole meeting felt very confrontational and while I sort of understand she wasn’t pleased with ds it felt like my parenting had been tried and felt lacking and that she needed to step in.

I don’t even know what the point to this post is! I guess I’m just wondering if others would feel a bit peculiar about it? Intentionally or otherwise it was incredibly undermining and felt horrible to be honest.

Ok, to totally over thinking this but:

some posters are saying that they should be the only people to parent their toddler/be left alone to parent their toddler.

in general I think most people would agree with this.

the problem with this comes when the toddler and parent are in social situations where there are expectations.

for example, sticking with the school theme, the nativity play. Some schools totally ban younger siblings from these because they have experience of a small toddler or multiple small toddlers running around the hall destroying decorations or crying in the middle of someone’s solo etc.

so sure, parents should be able to parent their toddler as they please - but if your two year old is singing loudly out of tune during the quiet bit in the nativity you are going to get some very very pointed looks and quite possibly a lot of comments afterwards.

in the same way, in this situation you’ve been pulled in to have a conversation with the teacher about your sons behaviour. This is presumably at pick up time.

the teacher(s) running the afterschool club will not expect toddlers to randomly appear and if a toddler did randomly appear they would quite likely have words with your class teacher.

so while yes you should be able to parent your toddler as you choose there’s also an expectation on the teacher here from the school that they not disrupt the activities of others (and it would be considered at least partially the teachers problem).

so I suspect the teacher got involved because they could see a potential problem and wanted to make sure it didn’t happen.

again, within the context of school the teacher will be expected to try to make sure her class is behaving while walking down the corridors/in assembly/on the way to swimming/on a school trip etc and she is on alert at all times for children trying to be somewhere that they shouldn’t.

not all teachers have children and not all teachers have experience with two year olds.

telling your toddler “no” is completely understandable from a teacher perspective.

Why is it okay for the teacher to be ‘frazzled’ after a long day but not the 2 year old who has an ear infection and is up since the crack of dawn?

Or for that matter why should we give grace to a ‘frazzled’ teacher after a supposedly stressful week but not the Op who was a split second late in saying no to her daughter? The teacher knew this meeting was coming, the Op and her daughter did not and were therefore caught off guard. Ops attention in that split second delay was more than likely on her son rather than her daughter. Why are so many posters willing to give grace to a complete stranger rather than to the op who has admitted she would have told her daughter no if given the chance before the teacher jumped in.

The reason I wrote supposedly stressful week is because all we know of the week is that one student with hearing probs splashed another whilst playing in a puddle even though he was told to stop. He may or may not have heard the word stop. The other ‘major’ event was some other students climbed on some tables.

Time to get a grip, these infringements from 5 year olds are minor and in my mind do not add up to a stressful week. If the teacher found all of this so stressful she needs to consider a career change.

Stop looping me in. You told me not to comment on the thread you started, so I didn't post again. Likewise, be respectful and do not @ me.

As you well know, no OP owns their thread, it's open to anyone to comment as long as it's in line with MN etiquette, which my posts clearly are. It's precious of you to try and control what I or anyone else is saying but I am certainly not surprised.

Your posts suggest you see yourself and your family as victims (of the teacher, of mocking what not) but as often is the case with that sort of mindset you yourself don't come across particularly well. IYKYK.

Interesting how you try to censor me. Your thread genuinely reminded me of that very highly emotional poster who cried and screamed when most would not, it's a simple association that was triggered. It wasn't mocking but simply drawing a parallel.

Best of luck with that defensive attitude when dealing with your dc's schooling. Your offspring will be picking up on your tensions and sense of victimhood but will long have forgotten the teacher.

Based on what you have shared here, I wouldn't be surprised if you really irritated the teacher in that meeting and in general.

#team teacher

Whatever the teacher is that is her probelm not everyone in her firing line.
I wouldve asked her why she took charge given she has no idea of the toddlers day..possible reaction...not that she would probably consider it.
We have a temp teacher and she is being very firm and has dropped all encouragement, fun stuff and usual classroom activties the kids get to do to stay on track...shes a complete miserable cow.
Whatever our kids are piss off with there authoritive moody bs please...

Accepting that a teacher is 'frazzled' isn't the same as saying it's OK. It would obviously be better for the teacher not to have spoken harshly to OP's DD. The question now is was it a one-off, or the style this teacher uses when talking to children who are out of line.

Typo

@Octavia64 you see, especially at a small village school, I would actually expect the opposite.
'Oh Ben's little sister, you like hedgehogs? Why don't you come help me make one whilst Mummy talks to the teacher'
Our school isn't small, but the staff are so warm to the younger siblings. My sister dropped eldest DD off at school once because I had to whip her sister to A&E when she'd flipped over the sofa. When I went to get her at home time, all the TAs came out to fuss my youngest because she'd had a hard time. I don't know, that's the kind of warmth we have. Maybe I'm just very lucky with our Early Years staff
Or maybe it's a Northern working class town thing, I don't know

Agree and highlighted this myself way up thread. My point above was more about why the teacher deserves our understanding but not Op or her dd.

I would not be happy either. It is nobody else's place to parent your child, unless they are completely wild and im thinking like a teenager causing criminal damage; not a toddler crying.

A professional has the absolute right to stop a child doing something incorrect when they are in their workplace- ie the classroom.

Just imagine if your belief system applied to a hospital visit, a dentist, a shop, trying to climb out of window, a train door, a plane, etc. Yes, they might be dangerous but sometimes behaviour impacts on others in a different way.

You''re saying no adult should ever say 'no'?

It wasn't just a toddler crying. Maybe read the whole thread and get some context for the disturbance this toddler was potentially creating for another teacher and their group.

The teacher was probably thinking I'm going to have this one in two years time and it's going to be deja vu.

Did you actually talk about your 5yr old's bad behaviour?

Your mistake is to post something like this on Mumsnet where there isn't much empathy or understanding for toddlers or children's behaviour in real life that isn't impeccable. I'd like to see the teacher telling my daughter no when she was a toddler!!! That would have backfired! Before anyone jumps down my throat she is now a very well behaved 4 year old. People have to remember toddlers do have to come with you even when not ideal sometimes. At least you will get a new teacher from September moving onwards

Oh yeah, some schools are like that.

my dc went to a small village school for reception to year 2 and the teachers all knew everyone and most siblings because there were only about 100 kids in the whole school. (East Anglia)

equally, I worked at a school only ten miles away where if a sibling disrupted the head’s after school recorder club you could expect a good bollocking!

schools vary.

so do teachers

I wouldn’t give it too much thought because the teacher is probably used to be quite firm with kids, she won’t have the attachment you have to yours, obviously.

If it makes you feel any better, one time a consultant absolutely destroyed me about DD, she was having a bit of a fit but the Dr didn’t take into any consideration that we had been waiting for 4 hours. It’s very difficult to entertain a toddler for that long, pre tablets in a stuffy waiting room. I left her office in tears and still to this day fantasise about telling her what a cow she was.

Lots of us do think the OP deserves our understanding. Because she didn't react quickly to her DD standing by a door and crying, the teacher stepped in. OP's hesitation is something that could have happened to any parent. The teacher's harshness and the OP's hesitation have together created to the current situation.

When my DD was a few months old, I took her to the GP with a suspected ear infection. She was in pain, writhing around and bawling her head off. He said, angrily, 'I can't examine her when she's crying.' Not his finest moment and I was annoyed at the time on behalf of my DD, but could also see that he was trying to do his job. Having another adult be sharp with your child is upsetting.

As a teacher you’d think your reading comprehension would be better frankly.

OP the longer this thread goes on the more you have my sympathy. I've been in your shoes and in the teacher's shoes. I've worked in a small school. Early years teachers are generally a different breed, and it doesn't sound to me like this one understands small children.
Your son's behaviour hasn't been great, but it should have been dealt with by the teacher/the school, unless it's been ongoing for some time. Shouldn't have taken more than a quick word, or a note in his book. Especially since it was only Tuesday - at least give him the chance to improve by the end of the week!
And I don't think I know ANY teacher who would snap at a parent mid meeting. I think this is what you can't shake off.
Since she's going to be in your life for two more years how easy would it be to move schools?
(On a side note, at that age I would be seeing each child out of the door to their parents at home time, much easier to nab someone for a quick word, and much friendlier)
Teaching is hard and often thankless, but it's not because of you or your DD.

To be fair, it was only in later posts that the OP mentioned this was an impromptu request from the school at the end of the school day.

I thought it was a pre-arranged parents' meeting too until I read 'all'.

Better if OP had explained it fully in her first post.

That is a very kind way to deal with it. Across 2 schools with my DC’s I have never had prior warning. Just pulled at pick up.

And I don't think I know ANY teacher who would snap at a parent mid meeting. I think this is what you can't shake off.

I am shocked at how posters are unable to read carefully.

She didn't snap at the OP.
She told her toddler- firmly- to stop trying to join another group next door. The child was wailing and it eventually became a tantrum where OP had to carry her out of school.

OP's annoyed at the 'injustice' of her child being ''No' simply because she didn't react in time.

It's all a mountain out of a molehill but OP is coming over as someone who likes to be in charge and can't bear being overridden.

I have explained she did snap at me actually, it was in a prior post

The OP said the teacher was adversarial in her communications from the outset and did snap at her when she asked her son which child he splashed. It sounds as though the whole interaction was unpleasant from start to finish.

And I don’t think it was unjust to tell her no. I think the way it was done was needlessly hostile and I think it was my place, not hers. But we can nitpick all day (and probably will) some are just determined I was stood there helpless for ages so the poor, harangued teacher had to step in: this is a fabrication.

Thank you, yes, this is correct. It was just an unpleasant experience with an unpleasant atmosphere from the outset. Never mind. Hopefully can move on.

@TaoJing I think you are the one who needs to learn how to read.

The teacher did snap at both the op and her dd. When the op asked who her son had splashed the teacher snapped back ‘it doesn’t matter who’. But it does matter if the op wants to get her son to apologise to that child.

Also the op did explain way up thread that it was an impromptu meeting, it was mentioned before that pp said she should have arranged childcare.

Read the thread.

I think it’s more ‘typical’ that people are mostly supporting the teacher and criticising the OP.

I find it really interesting how defensive the teaching profession always is. I have worked in the NHS for 30 years. When people point out poor behaviour from clinicians, I immediately think they should raise it. I will always challenge any rude behaviour in my colleagues. Doesn’t matter if we have had a bad day or have other things going on. As professionals we should be polite at all times and that is a hill I will die on. I have never been rude to a patient or relative in over three decades and I’m not about to start now, however much rudeness I encounter. I will put boundaries in if needed but I will never be snappy and rude at work because I have had a bad day myself.

There is always so much automatic excusing of poor teacher behaviour here. I think it does the many many good teachers a disservice. Teachers are under a lot of pressure and there are some dreadful parents and poorly behaved children, and incidents of violence and rudeness that teachers should not have to tolerate. I am really not sure that the incident described by the OP here is a glaring example of the worst kind of parent.

Right??! Some of the respondents on this thread are absolutely delusional OP, I’d pay the majority of them no notice. I, too, bring my just-turned 3 year old to the doctor’s, hairdressers, dentist, bank etc. - I’m hardly going to book a babysitter and pay £50 every time I need to do any of those things, am I?! And schools absolutely expect younger siblings to be around.

Having now read most of your updates, the teacher sounds horrible to be honest. I don’t necessarily agree that no one but the parents should ever talk to a child, but people who are good with young children are able to say “no” with warmth and god humour (and it works just as well if not better than being horrible and snappy). I’d now be trying to work out whether this was a one-off or a if she’s always like it. Because if she’s always like it then it sounds like she isn’t actually very good with young children - and that’s a bit of a problem when that’s her job.