Are you boycotting Lush?

[MookySpinge]

I am, but wondered what the rest of you think of their decision to support Hunt Sabs - feel it is on a par with any other terrorist group personally. Should probably do a link but iPhone is behaving badly at the moment.

ok doobydoo a job lot on it's way to you !

Thankyou
I started a post from hunt sab pov and other people who are cpmpassionate and not active but[wisely]I feel decided to abandon it as would only get all hideous etc.So I am being very good I think

You'd've been bloody daft to rely on hunting to 'keep vermin under control'.

10 x more foxes are killed on the roads.

The 'oh dear, now we have to shoot them' argument convinces me not one jot I'm afraid.

I mean, Godzilla you might need to go after with dozens of dogs & a pack of arseholes on horses. Foxes, no. Not a cost-effective way of 'managing vermin', & I have more respect for those who are open about the fact that they just like killing things for fun.

Not much more respect, obviously, as they're still obviously nasty pieces of work, but at least they're honest about it.

oh & I'll have a pot of Lemslip please, GoppingOtter. Yum yum.

Those poor poor hunters...a very disadvantaged group and they deserve our support.

dawnybabe, why is going out at night to shoot foxes such a big problem for people whose job it is to exterminate foxes?

I HATE the hunt. I live in a hugely prohunting area, and every year at New year, this town is invaded by a huge bunch of Hooray Henrys, braying loudly from their elevated horseback position, then going off, gallopy gallopy, to festively rip the guts out of something that has never in it's life harmed a human being.

Everyone who has gone hunting KNOWS how big a fox is, FFS. They KNOW exactly what sort of damage they can inflict on anything - they might kills some chickens and rabbits, and damage a cat, but to pitch a small, reclusive solitary animal against a pack of dogs is shameful.

Is this what we, as a species, have been reduced to? What next, mole hunting? They are carnivorous, you know, and will tear a garden to shreds. We are in no danger from any animal ever. Making things up so we have an excuse to kill defenseless animals is beyond the pale. We don't even eat them, and the damage they do to our lifestyles is negligible. The fox population has never needed to be controlled.

GoppingOtter, did you read the bit where I say;

"And to just counter the whole "ripped to pieces by dogs" shite line, when a pack of hounds catches a fox, the lead hound (the one at the front) will kill the fox pretty much instantly, and then the pack will have a go, but if any foxes are ripped to bits, they are dead by the time this happens. Anyone who sobs out this emotive line has obviously never seen a fox killed by hounds and as a result doesn't know what they are talking about.

And finally, shooting is not as precise as hunting with hounds. It's very easy to wing a fox, but not kill it outright, and trust me, gangrene is a long, drawn out, horrific way to go, but a bite to the throat or back of the neck is quick, clean and over."

Actually, hunting is a very effective form of vermin control for foxes. Only the old, weak, stupid, ill or very young get caught by hounds, and thee are the one which are likely to go for chickens/lambs etc. Fit, clever, healthy foxes will escape from the hounds and live to be vermin another day. Shooting is indiscriminate and hits all, old, young, fit, sick, nursing vixens and so on.....

I've never seen a hound kill a fox but I've seen a terrier kill a rat right in front of me, and believe me it is instant. That rat never knew what hit it.
Who are all these 'humane' people shooting the foxes? Even a good marksman will not hit a moving target well enough for a clean kill every time and I can't see that dying in agony from an infected bullet wound is much fun. Also there is no 'season' for going out at night in the pick-up and having a few pot-shots at the local foxes so there are very likely litters of cubs dying slowly of starvation waiting in vain for the vixen to come home. That's not such a pretty picture either.
I've never hunted btw, but I have bothered to read up on both sides of the argument and I can't see any evidence that hunting is any worse than other methods of culling foxes (and lets not forget how many die on the roads every year). In some ways it is better for the fox population as a whole, ie a fit healthy fox will often escape the hounds meaning the old and sick are culled, whereas a man with a gun will just shoot every fox he sees.

Greenmonkies, I was a bit slow there....

greenmonkies yeah i read it
sickened me

No problem Pixel, nice to see someone else has common sense!

instantly would not be much of a 'hunt' though

suppose its all in the chase

Yes Otter, the idea of any animal dying slowly from an infected wound sickens me too.

ravenAK keep the orders coming!

too right greenmonkies

who inflicts the wound ...oh yeah

WHY does the fox population need to be culled?

why?

We aren't exactly over-run, are we!

maybe there will be grey squirrel hunting soon

No reason why there couldn't be a closed season for shooting foxes, if the hunting fraternity are so compassionate about 'litters of cubs dying slowly of starvation waiting in vain for the vixen'. She's more likely to have been run over than shot, anyway.

Look, I wouldn't shoot them either. Unless I was a free-range chicken farmer & I sat up waiting to pot the particular fox who'd been raiding the hen yard.

But for me it's less about the relative merits of 'gunshot wound followed by dying in agony' v 'swiftly killed by lead hound (not always) after hours of extreme terror & distress'. I wouldn't fancy either & I bet the fox doesn't.

It's more that I think that sort of cruelty says something fairly unpleasant about those who indulge in it. If death by dog is the most humane way of 'controlling' the fox population, then I still don't get why you need dozens of idiots on horses to chase the poor bugger as well.

well put raven

Agree with RavenAK. The fact that you enjoy doing it doesn't make it right even if you think you're a nice and righteous person.

korma look here

Hunting is also about the dispersal of foxesa ( excuse spelling) so it doesn't lead to a build up of foxes in one area which then leads to mange, starvation, scavenging etc. We have had a healthy fox population infected by 'city foxes' who carry disease which effects both the fox population and pets as they are caught in towns and dumped in the countryside but they have no idea how to hunt because all they are used to is scavenging bins. And I will also reiterate that no the hunt does not kill the old hounds and feed them to the young hounds but they do provide a very good service to the local farming community and help in the disposal of deadstock.

And if you really want to do something about animal cruelty the badger the police to get on board about poaching which is horrendous but which they do nothing about even when they are given all the information they need about the goings on.

try to remember hunting is illegal

It's illegal to trap and release vermin, so who is doing it?

Unless foxes are not actually vermin...