Horse Loaning Etiquette - does anyone know what it is??

[Gymbob]

I am loaning a horse for my DD for £80 per month, 2 days per week. Due to the horse being lame two or three times, for weeks a time sometimes, she's not been getting all her days. More recently, we went on holiday for 2 weeks, so missed 4 rides, and bad weather sometimes interferes too as there is no indoor arena.

I agreed to pay the £80 via our banks on a monthly basis (not including me paying towards the farrier). Is it just our tough luck when the horse is lame, and tough luck if we choose to go on holiday? My husband is making a fuss that we are not getting our money's worth, but I'm not sure whether it's just par for the course when loaning, and saying something to the owner might tarnish our relationship.

Does anyone have experience of loaning, either as an owner, or a loaner? any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have a part loan and yes I pay when I can't ride or she is lame. Mainly because the owner still has to feed/shoe/house horse. I don't have set days though, I do as many as I like so I can often reschedule days

Yes, totally normal that you pay regardless. Why can't you ride outside if the weather's bad? I can understand if the ground/ménage is totally waterlogged or frozen but otherwise?

thanks for your replies guys. I'm slightly relieved to have you both say it's normal, as hubby thinks we're being ripped off.

on the occasions where the weather has been bad, it's just been like torrential rain for hours, and I expect riding would be unpleasant for both horse and rider. plus the owner doesn't seem to like the tack getting wet. Sometimes we have been able to go when it has stopped but other times we have just lost the ride

Is the horse lame with the same thing each time? It is normal to still pay if the horse is lame but I wouldn't be happy if it keeps happening. When I shared my horse I didn't ask for money if she was lame for more than a couple of weeks.
If you go on holiday then yes you should still pay.
I don't think its reasonable to expect you not to ride cos the tack will get wet, thats a bit rubbish. However if its just too wet to be any fun then I'd still expect to pay.

Surely you have a loan agreement yes? That should set out what is expected.

As an owner who has a part loaner I wouldn't expect you to still pay if the horse was lame for any length of time, but would be really grateful if you still looked after her on your days. I do ask my loaner to still pay when she's on holiday as it still costs me the same to keep the horse (in fact it costs more as I have to pay for her to be looked after those days) and the loaner has chosen to go away, the horse isn't unavailable.

Wrt the tack, providing you give it a quick clean if it's got soaked I can't see their issue, it is worth remembering that tack is expensive to replace hence why people get a bit precious over it.

£80 a month plus shoes is quite a lot for 2 days a week IMO, my loaner only pays £100 a month for 3 days and we are on an expensive yard with an indoor school so she can always ride.

No, the horse has been lame for different reasons each time.

I don't have a loan agreement as such, well not a written one if that's what you mean. Do people usually have written ones? Just a verbal 2 days a week, and if it's possible catch up rides if it's raining on those days. To be fair, the owner is flexible and we can try and do other days in holiday time, but DD is pretty tied to the agreed days during term time due to mine and her other commitments.

I did voluntarily check on the horses for a week while the owner was on holiday herself a couple of weeks ago, and I did volunteer to pay half the cost of the farrier as there was a problem with his feet toward the end of the week the owner was away (I won't volunteer every time I don't think, but I am a soft touch I'm afraid!). I've also paid for quite a few other things, but all voluntarily.

The owner goes to the yard every day anyway as she has several horses plus a menagerie to look after.

Have to say - all this is a revelation - am so glad I asked. thank you

I see part loaning as taking on part of the care of the horse. So lameness is part and parcel and i would still pay.
Likewise if you go on holiday.

Missing rides due to bad weather though because the owner doesn't want the tack getting wet - She should either knock soome money off or give an extra day. Saddles aren't made of sugar. If your DD is happy to ride in rain then she should be able to. (The only weather i wont ride in personally is hail, really high winds or thunderstorms).

If your DD simply doesn't like riding in the rain (mine doesn't) then thats not her fault.

I would suggest offering to buy a saddle cover (you can buy them cheaply second hand) if she is that bothered about it getting wet.

[[http://www.robinsonsequestrian.com/saddles-tack/saddlery/accessories/tottie-capri-ride-on-saddle-cover.html here]] is a saddle coveer for riding (Not sure how water proof it is though but you can get them waterproof)

here is a waterproof exercise sheet.

No idea what that last one is like for actually riding though, ive never used one, I've seen others using similar, hopefully someone else can advise.

The BHS has a sample loan agreement which you can change to suit your needs. I would strongly urge you to get it all down in writing to avoid misunderstandings as shares can get very complicated when they go wrong.

Yes it is normal to pay when the horse is off work, in bad weather or when you go on holiday. If you are not happy with that a riding school lesson is your best bed, they will provide another horse is one horse is lame, and you can book lessons as and when you want. Of course you may also cancel the share (written agreements are good because they specify the notice period for cancelling) and look for another horse but keep in mind that horses are very delicate animals and will often have time off due to injury or illness. Also be aware that the owner may cancel the agreement at any time.

A nice analogy for your DH to understand this is the arrangement is that if you part loan an airplane with other hobby pilots but can't fly due to bad weather you still need to pay your share. You don't pay per flight you pay for access to a resource that may sometimes be unavailable.

flock thank you for your effort with that, off to check out those links now.

thanks boo, love your analogy. hubby will definitely relate to a plane better than a ponsy horse

I am with Boo - I strongly suggest you put an agreement in writing. We have just had DS loan go wrong......I let my heart rule my head......owner didn't want to put anything in writing because she had "been doing it for years with no problem"...well no problem for her, but she just took the piss again and again. So put it in writing so expectations are clear and defined.

I have had a horse/pony for thirty odd years. There is no way I would expect/let you pay if the horse was not available for work due to lameness. Yes, I would expect you to pay if you were on holiday and/or chose not to ride but not if the horse wasn't up to being ridden.

If the owner doesn't like her tack getting wet she shouldn't have a sharer - absolutely ridiculous - if she is that precious she should buy a webbing bridle and a ride on saddle cover. Not sure where you are based but some parts of the country have rain 200 days a year. How does she think hunting folk cope - hours of pxxxing down rain through the winter. Bonkers.

I'm with your husband, she is taking the mick! Yes, horses are expensive etc., etc., but her horse's lameness is not your problem, she is taking your money in exchange for riding/caring. If you did the care bit when you couldn't ride I would be extremely grateful as an owner, there is no way I would take your money as well.

I would have a word personally.

I'd be the same as Lavender, I couldn't take someone's money if the horse was repeatedly lame and would be grateful if they carried on helping with the chores. The odd incident like a lost shoe or needing a few day's rest after a minor injury is one thing, and yes that would be part and parcel of sharing, but anything prolonged would be another thing entirely.

thanks for your advice. I think I will have a word this weekend. I think I will also start afresh as far as the loan goes, and start a clean slate. I am going to forget the rides we are owed. Me and the owner have both had holidays and it all seems to have got a bit messy. from now on I will document everything and take it from there.

I don't feel able to ask for a loan agreement now as we are about 6 months into it and we do get on well. if this one breaks down I will definitely get one next time

Good luck Gymbob - it is hard to address these things sometimes especially if you like the person.

I think it comes down to a sense of fairness really, I like to treat people fairly and I don't think you have been.