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Discuss horse riding and ownership on our Horse forum.

Live webcam of shire mare giving birth

619 replies

Pixel · 15/06/2011 20:03

[[www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13771099

hope this works]]

OP posts:
AmyStake · 14/07/2011 18:36

I thought that interview was pretty defensive, but I understand why.

What I don't understand is why they haven't let people vote on whether to let her foal again. I thought that was the whole point of MyFarm? A lot of people are upset about it.

Also the part where it says "We will not be conducting a post-mortem so we will not know the exact reason. The birth was timely and straightforward, a healthy foal in these circumstances should have no problem at all." - in this video Emma tells us that Queenie had a placental abruption during the birth and the foal took a breath of fluid. So they obviously do know what happened Hmm.

It's not their fault, but I just thought it was a strange thing to say when they do know what's happened.

Pixel · 14/07/2011 19:13

Tis a pity it all ended so sadly. The webcam was a great idea (enough people were watching to prove that) and I've thoroughly enjoyed sharing all the excitement and anticipation (ok yes, and some boredom Grin) with everyone on here for the last few weeks. I got quite fond of old Queenie, even though she was asleep most of the time, and we've had a few laughs. The actual birth was fascinating (until it was obvious things were going wrong) and I'm glad despite everything to have had the experience.

Not sure I could face it all again mind you. If I ever have a mare I don't think I will put her in foal, far too stressful!

OP posts:
HadAThreesomeWithFredAndGeorge · 14/07/2011 20:08

That interview is interesting.

It might seem strange her being put into foal again so quickly but as someone has said things are a bit different on farms. I grew up on a farm and you see so much life and death that it is becomes a fact of life. Of course it is never nice, especially in a situation like this, but you have to just carry on or else the farm wouldn't run.

AmyStake · 14/07/2011 20:14

And the fact there are only 300 something pure breed Suffolk Punch's in the world. That might be a bit cynical of me though Confused.

Disasterpiece · 14/07/2011 20:35

SO is it a proper working farm then or is it a visitors centre type farm?

Disasterpiece · 14/07/2011 20:36

Amy - Queenie is a shire, a Suffolk Punch is a different breed. I didnt know there are only 300 of them left though Sad

piprabbit · 14/07/2011 20:59

It says that it is a real working farm, which is being managed by a community of 10,000 online farmers (members of the public) who will make decisions about how it is run.

As it's owned by the National Trust and part of the Wimpole Hall estate - I guess you can visit if you like.

AmyStake · 14/07/2011 22:16

Oops! Where did I get Suffolk Punch from? Doh! I was going to say it would be pretty obvious why they would want to breed her again if she was an SP but if she's a Shire then that's not a valid argument.

I used to live near a Shire Horse center type place that had a Suffolk Punch Stallion. What a beautiful horse.

And can someone explain to me please why, after not having ridden a horse for 7 years, I'm sitting here looking at horsemart.co.uk? Grin

AmyStake · 14/07/2011 22:18

Never mind the fact that I don't know bugger all about horses anyway!

EveryonesJealousOfWeasleys · 14/07/2011 22:57

Is she a Suffolk Punch then rather than a Shire?

Disasterpiece · 14/07/2011 23:17

No, Queenie is a shire.

A Suffolk Punch looks like this

They are all that colour (chestnut, Queenie is Bay) and are massive. They are only slightly taller than Shires but are a lot heavier.

EveryonesJealousOfWeasleys · 14/07/2011 23:27

That's what I thought

Amy's post confused me but I now see I cross posted with lots of later posts in any case!!! Confused

What do you think, Disasterpiece? Was she insufficiently supported for her birth? Should they put her back in foal? Should they have looked at fostering?

Disasterpiece · 14/07/2011 23:43

I think I know fuck all about broodmares. Grin

However, I think Emma did her best and she must be devastated and I feel very sorry for her at the minute as she is being scrutinised for every move she made. She tried so hard and is obviously very upset by the outcome.

I do think they coul have tried to find her a foster foal but they have said that it would have been too much work for them. Rightly or wrongly.

I also dont think she should be put back in foal, not this year anyway.

cookielove · 15/07/2011 17:36

Oh no, i have come back (internet died) and so much has happened, what a shame and such saddness for the loss of the foal.

Sad
SeniorWrangler · 16/07/2011 11:00

Given that loads of people have shown an interest in this, I think a post mortem would be educational and a fitting conclusion, even if you wouldn't normally do this for a farm horse of this type.

Disasterpiece · 16/07/2011 15:16

It will be too late now, the foal will have already been disposed of.

Im not sure if they should have done one or not. I dont think Ive fully made my mind up on it yet.

As far as I know they already know the foal drowned on its amniotic fluid because the placenta ruptured and the cord snapped. The foal took its first breath too soon and inhaled fluids.

SeniorWrangler · 17/07/2011 08:15

Interesting.

It was in effect a kind of horse home birth that led to disaster due to a comparatively rare complication - if this was a human with a mw or dr present, they would have kept a better eye on the placenta and cord, monitored the foal better during labour, used an aspirator to clear out the lungs, and so on. Few babies die these days as a result of this complication, as I understand it. So the technology's there to prevent disaster a lot of the time, even though mammalian birth processes are comparatively inefficient and often dangerous for the offspring.

However this is not a human, it is a horse. If you are a 'farm' horse, it seems medical attention is more or less denied you, because vets are expensive, and the words 'natural' and 'normal for a farm' are regularly invoked. Nobody monitors your foal's heartbeat, there are no gadgets to sort out obstetric disasters, nobody is on hand to stop the cord snapping if it is a bit short, and if you are lucky they give you the foal to sniff a bit at the end so you know it has died.

Were Queenie a valuable pedigree racehorse, I daresay this would all have ended differently. Instead, Queenie spent a whole year growing a foal to no purpose, a process she doesn't understand because she is a horse. She doesn't understand what labour is either, but next year she's going to have to do all this again. And not because we need Shires to pull ploughs, but rather because we like breeding them and standing them around in farms for kids to pay £3.99 or whatever to look at before they go off for an ice cream.

I hope in my next life I don't come back as a horse. A female one like this, anyway.

piprabbit · 17/07/2011 09:59

"Submitted by Farmer Emma W on 27 Jun 2011, 14:53

Hi Everyone, As Queenie had two attempts at AI last year, we could have had two potential due dates, they were 26th June and 15th July. As the vets originally told us she wasn't in foal we had no way of knowing which attempt she conceived on. Obviously 26th June has now passed, however mares can easily be three weeks early or sometimes go overdue so we will just have to keep watching her!"

Is it possible that the foal was very overdue from the first AI attempt (17 days?). It's not unknown for women to go that overdue - and for their consultants to threaten dreadful consequences if the placenta degrades. The second lot of AI seems to have caused lots of confusion with dates.

Disasterpiece · 17/07/2011 10:50

Horses can go more over due than humans and it still be considered safe.

In humans the placenta begins to deteriorate after 42 weeks.

Im not sure with horses, I might go and google Smile

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