The Sixty-Second Republic - Pop da pop pop, the beat don't stop until the break of term

[StaffRepFeistyClub]

You are most welcome to this school staff support thread to get us through stressful times. It is meant for school staff only – a sort of room of requirement for school staff to let off steam.

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I didn’t feel I could keep other kids safe while he was in the room, i loathed having him in the class.

I have a lot of that. My SLT is very supportive, but there are so many children like this in my school, that it's impossible for them to be across all of it.

They definitely said that in China the kids work much harder, but in England the teachers work much harder.

Visitors to my school said exactly the same thing.

Piggu sorry that happened to your son.

On the maths thing...

In our mixed 3/4 phase, we can teach maths in year groups.

It's crossed my mind that it would be good to also sort of stream those 3/4 classes - have a lower year 3, a higher year 3 and the same for year 4. I'd want the lower year 3 class - we'd cover the same, but maybe slower and spend more time on counting and number work.

Is that OK? Or not OK? We just don't really know.

I was in sets for Maths and English at primary school. Is that not a thing anymore?

There was that TV show wasn't there, where Chinese teachers came and tried to use their methods in an English school with classes of 50 English kids. And they did get better results in the end but it was a bit of a culture shock.

We don't have inclusion at the moment in schools. With the correct funding and support it could happen. What we have now is "inclusion" that impacts on the rest of the class. I agree its not a very inclusive attitude but having seen some of the issues my pre school dcs are already facing, the classroom isn't safe for them all.

They did have form groups and are responsible for those students. There is very good behaviour and any issue they work in offices with all the other teachers for that year group so they said on a rare occasion a quick chat with home usually sorts it immediately.

Yes, the problem with inclusion is that someone decided that kids with difficulties should be in mainstream education and that was the end of it. No support, no training, no consideration given to what should happen if mainstream education isn't suitable. And definitely no consideration given to the impact on the education of the kids in the class. It is all very well saying kids need to learn to tolerate differences but they are there to learn and it is hard to learn when someone in the room is kicking off because they can't cope with being in the classroom.

@Hercisback

We don't have inclusion at the moment in schools. With the correct funding and support it could happen. What we have now is "inclusion" that impacts on the rest of the class. I agree its not a very inclusive attitude but having seen some of the issues my pre school dcs are already facing, the classroom isn't safe for them all.

That's perfectly put.

^that reply was to @Piggywaspushed

We saw some student with SEN but they were clearly HFA students and described by the headteacher as ‘very special’ with an amazing ability. I think school is only mandatory until end of primary and if you don’t live in the big cities not sure how much it is always enforced tbh. There’s very much the story you are told or they want you to hear and very much a lot going on behind the facade. Students with behavioural issues etc just aren’t in the main schools despite them telling you they are.

@noblegiraffe

There was that TV show wasn't there, where Chinese teachers came and tried to use their methods in an English school with classes of 50 English kids. And they did get better results in the end but it was a bit of a culture shock.

That programme wasn’t quite what it made out to be.

One of the Chinese teachers was in fact one of my ex colleagues who was born in the UK and had never taught in China. They taught at the school we were both in for around 20 years. The teacher’s daughter was also at our school we both taught in, in London and did very well and yet was saying very awful things about teaching in the UK on that programme.
I found that programme infuriating at the lying at the time.

In my class at the moment:

1 child (age 9, in every way apart from his size, is a naughty 2 year old) with 1-1 support. Needs 1-1 support, said support can't do anything else.

1 child who shouts "help me help me help me" the whole time. THE WHOLE TIME. If someone sits next to them, they will work a bit. Does nothing independently. Autistic, no diagnosis, parents in denial.

1 child who is on a part time timetable, usually not even in the classroom (easier if they are just roaming the school really), if they are in, I have to share my time between them and the child above. Autism diagnosis, shouts and swears at me, can't work with a 1-1 adult as just hurts them.

3 children are working at age related expectations - lower attaining cohort, this isn't a new thing. They are also challenging in terms of behaviour, but within the 'norm'.

No one other than the two children above gets any of my time.

I mean... that's just putting obstacles in everyone's way, and isn't good for anyone.

I’ll tell you what was interesting in Shanghai is that beteeen lessons there is 10 minutes where teachers move and the kids get a break and there is no supervision and they are feral! The that bell goes and they all go back inside the classroom and are good as gold for the lesson - eye opening and something I did not expect to see!

Yes I imagine delving into what happens to SEN children/ families in China would be quite eye-opening.....

@TheHoneyBadger

Rather than a GCSE at age 16 it would make more sense for Maths to be a series of pass and move on, fail and repeat assessments/certificates. So some kids might only complete and get a Level 3 certificate say and others could go to Level 5 and the very able could be starting on what you'd see as A'level content earlier. It's so skilled based that it seems mad to move on to harder Maths if you haven't secured the basics that will be taken for granted as secured the next year. At secondary instead of sets you'd have the different stages of qualification being worked towards together. Am I missing an obvious fault with this idea?

Off to look at wtf the DM is on.

Funny you should say that honey, I remember that there was a modular gcse course about 10 years ago (edexcel maybe?) which had ability level modules 1 through 10. Aiming for a grade G/F? Modules 1 and 2. On track for A*? Modules 8, 9 and 10. I only ever taught in one school that used it, but it meant that everything you taught to your class was directly related to their ability and to their exam.

I completely agree with this.

It’s not inclusion-it’s just cheap. And then it’s the class teacher’s fault when it fails.

On the teaching maths front, I've posted before about how I've got a shit working memory. I can't hold numbers in my head, I'm crap at mental arithmetic, I need to write every stage of a calculation down to get it out of my head so I can think about the next one.

I didn't know this until I had been teaching for a few years...obviously I'm good at maths, I've got a degree in it, so it never occurred to me that I always showed all my working out because I had to, and that the kids who didn't show their working out really didn't see the point because they could do it in their head.

It means I'm great at modelling stuff on the board for the kids. It means I break everything down into tiny steps so their working memory is never overloaded.

But I've also noticed that people who have good working memories don't necessarily appreciate that students might not be able to do what they can do. Mental calculations for example - DON'T COUNT ON YOUR FINGERS. I use my fingers for mental calculations all the time, to keep track of where I am because I can't do the calculation and keep track of where I am at the same time. Insistence on not using 'tricks'. An aversion to calculators. Talking kids through a calculation without writing it down. It's not helpful and will make them think they are crap at maths.

One of the Chinese teachers was in fact one of my ex colleagues who was born in the UK and had never taught in China.

that's outrageous.

Did anyone see that programme where English kids went to South Korea and the kids were all in study centres till 10pm then falling asleep in class the next day?

I agree with all of that noble. I'm always telling kids that fingers are there to help with maths (everything else they do with their fingers are just bonuses), so they should use them whenever they need them. I also write everything down, some of my top sets laugh at me for writing too much down, but it's how I keep my brain clear for the next step. Why would I want to remember all those numbers when I can write them down?

@MrsHerculePoirot

I’ll tell you what was interesting in Shanghai is that beteeen lessons there is 10 minutes where teachers move and the kids get a break and there is no supervision and they are feral! The that bell goes and they all go back inside the classroom and are good as gold for the lesson - eye opening and something I did not expect to see!

Lucy Crehan's book 'Cleverlands' does have a chapter on Japan where she describes how silly and naughty Japanese children are (little ones this is) . I think she was surprised. We hold a lot of stereotypes about East Asians, I guess.

We use Maths No Problem (with a sprinkle of Teejay for word problems) and I love it. I reallly think it’s brought our children’s maths on.

Interestingly, parents seem to hate it! If I hear one more ‘that’s how dad taught me’ I will go crazy. Think that could have been a lockdown effect though.

I have just one challenging chappie at the moment. (Very lucky, I know. Sorry Rule). But it is like working with an unexploded bomb. One false step (like the computer calling him by his full name which he doesn't like) and it's action stations talking him down off the cliff edge.

Yes.

When out tutor talked about the culture surrounding 'Singapore/Shanghai' Maths, my eyebrows were rising higher and higher.

Firstly, taking children out in the afternoons for small-group teaching if they hadn't grasped the day's concept.

Well, I'm Primary, we tend to teach Humanities, Science, etc then. There'd be outrage. The Mumsnet threads! And teachers would point out that this isn't fair on children who perhaps live for Art but now consistently miss Art.

And the assumption that the day's exercise goes home and parents ensure the children grasp it.

Now that would have multiple threads in AIBU. Can you imagine?

It's a massive, massive cultural difference. And it's a holistic difference. So many things would have to change to make that possible, right down to working and living patterns. And we haven't even discussed the cultural impact of the old 'one child' policy, which meant there were lots of adults around to do all this at-home tutoring.

But i suppose the reason we're talking about this is because, according to those PISA graphs, far fewer children have low attainment in those countries than in the U.K.

In the UK's 'long tail' are a lot of children, not just children with SEND. 🤷‍♀️

Mind you, I find teaching Art harder.

I'll confess, I often feel radically out of my depth there. 🤷‍♀️

@DollyMixtureLulus do you use sumdog in your school? I've one dc who loves that (though says it's too long, which I agree with!) but the one who actually struggles with maths just guesses. Over and over again.