The Fifty Seventh Republic - the joy of bank holiday marking

[StaffRepFeistyClub]

You are most welcome to this school staff support thread to get us through stressful times. It is meant for school staff only – a sort of room of requirement. Baiters, haters, goaders, and bashers can jog on somewhere else.

If you are NOT staff and just have a general education query please start your own thread.

Do not give the staffroom password to non-staff as it attracts the wrong sort of crowd.

Other requirements for staff room entry include the ability to find the staff room, the ability to find a clean mug in the staff room, knowledge of the photocopier codes, and the ability to sniff out where the booze is stashed - Thirsty Tuesdays, Fizz Fridays now in operation. Do not sit on the chairs and do wear a mask

Also, with Labour 'telling people they are wrong'- we can't redo the Brexit campaign so what else can they do? It seems a lot of folk in Cambs etc like the Tories/Leavers being told they are wrong!

I dont think you're looking carefully enough if you don't think politicians on the left don't heckle potential voters rather than woo them. Angela Rayner was a perfect example. Lots of Labour politicians do do that, but I'm also talking about media supporters, like OJ, and on the ground supporters mostly, actually.

My most vocal v left wing friends spend their entire time on social media - and particularly in the lead up to an election -going on about how people had better "vote the right way," "Britain is a hell hole and I can't wait to move to Scandinavia/New Zealand/Canada," "why are people so dumb?" "I can't be friends with people who aren't as tolerant as me" (the best one - the irony!) After the Brexit vote: "I need to move to a part of the country that voted Remain to 'find my tribe'; I can't bear to live near people who don't think like me..." Still, no sense of irony...

It's basically middle class people telling working class people how they should want to live their lives and what's best for them and how this should be achieved...this is what those voters now hear all the time. And if both main parties are now dominated by the elite or at people "not like us" I'd rather vote for those who don't constantly tell me I vote/d wrong or that my country is bollocksed. I completely fail to see Boris's appeal, personally and obviously, but you can't deny he's optimistic.

That should be "they'd rather vote" not me. I can't see anything to like in any of the parties right now.

Yeah, I get that dangling but is that not just an echo chamber? I am not sure your average working class red wall voter sees or hears that (or reads OJ/ listens to James O'Brien). It is more of a perception that has been fostered by the Tories imo that the Labour party are woke do gooders.

I think we need more David Lammys , not fewer.

Our local Labour councillors (Town and county) spend most of their life on social media saying how wrong the Tories are but never offer a concrete alternative plan. It's all "the Tories spent £60m on X which didn't benefit our specific local context" rather than 'We'd spend money on Y'. Bit like behaviour management, give the behaviour you want to see, not what you don't want.

The fervent Labour voters on my newsfeed are always sharing memes and stories like "if you think X you're a bigot". There's an air of condescension which fits with the national social media narrative. I can see why people get put off.

The point re Labour votes now being split between lib and green is a good one. Perhaps proportional representation would be better?

As for maths being racist, I really can't get my head round that. Bet KB will have something to say!

For example Nicola Sturgeon proper bollocked the Britain First creature in the street the other day. I can't help thinking that if an English politician had done this it wouldn't have been so well received. They would have been called 'superior' and 'out of touch'.

That sort of 'no nonsense, speak as you find' model of politicians seems now only allowed in certain quarters.

The left might be awful on SM but some of the Tory MPs Twitter presence is reprehensible! Playing to the crowd.

But you need to say people are wrong when you aren't in power? Those in power don't need to do this?

It was Gavin last week who called his opposition number out for 'moaning'. It reminds me of SLT. Any valid issue is just dismissed as moaning. I thought that was the job of opposition? That used to be how election campaigns were run!

If people say 'we will do this' they are just told those are 'empty promises'. Perhaps things have become too Americanised in politics for old fashioned me.

I would say my local Labour MP is very positive on Facebook.

Yes, of course the opposition should be calling out the party in power. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about them calling their own potential voters wrong, thick, racist.

Can't remember who the spokesperson from the Labour front bench was on R4 on Friday morning was but he just.did.not.get.it. Kept saying "we didn't talk enough/persuade enough/get our message across" not "we didn't listen enough/ask enough..."

Calling them out is fine. But that's literally all they do. There's never an alternative, just mud slinging. I don't know any policies Labour want to introduce. I'd say it's bad marketing.

Sadly the Tories gain votes on the party opinions on big issues and people overlook the 90% of tory policies they disagree with.

OJ/Ash Sarker etc are always on the Sunday morning politics shows, QT or other broad appeal tv programmes representing left wing opinion. It's never someone older or actually working class or not obsessed with identity politics.

I just don't think ordinary people, and especially Northern ordinary people, see themselves represented in political discourse any more so they're bound to vote on either local concerns or a bigger picture "these guys seem like they know what they're doing and don't constantly run down my country and people like me."

What are the audience figs for those programmes Dangling? They are watched predominantly by university educated middle classes. (It was the Sun wot won it , after all)

I agree about representation but I actually think labour a) need a slogan (do they have one??) and
b) in Westminster are too nice. I still think the Tory Party are the 'nasty party'. When Boris sneers at Keir and calls him a lawyer, he knows he is repeating back the way some people think and framing 'Sir Keir' as an elitist. Keir just blinks : he is too polite, actually, and respectful - so seems bland. Gav tells someone to 'stop moaning', Hancock says 'watch your tone' to someone. I think Labour are being far too passive.

I really really don't think the identity politics thing matters one little bit to your average northern (or even southern) voter outside of certain elite circles. It's jobs, Brexit, the economy and Covid.

I agree that Boris exudes optimism, though. When Corbyn followers were optimistic they were called smug. It does seem to be a crime now to be young and from London. It's a bit like teachers being told they aren't in the Real World. Everyone has different 'real worlds'.

The point re Labour votes now being split between lib and green is a good one. Perhaps proportional representation would be better?

Our not very democratic electoral system doesn’t help. We do need electoral reform, but difficult to see how it could happen currently.

When Boris sneers at Keir and calls him a lawyer, he knows he is repeating back the way some people think and framing 'Sir Keir' as an elitist. Keir just blinks : he is too polite, actually, and respectfu

I agree,I wish KS would use his follow up questions at pmqs to repeat over and over ' Can you answer the Fooking question Boris Johnson?'

I bet the audience figures are higher than those who actually watch parliament though where, you're right, the tone has definitely degenerated. I thought I was dreaming the first time I saw just how rude Gav was.

I have been pondering for a while that one of the problems the left has had in terms of reach for the last couple of decades is that is doesn't have representation in the middle brow press. Broadsheets, such as they are these days: right and left wing (the Indie is very definitely not indie). Red tops: right and left wing. The middling tabloids: only right wing.

It's all gone a bit political.

I can't vote labour anymore. I notice it is barely given a mention beyond mn that women might be a factor - they lost a lot of female votes when they were calling for any gender critical women to be expelled from the party and when the candidates for leadership couldn't define what a woman was.

Even people who don't give a shit about women would have been put off by that and seen it as evidence of the reputation Labour has gained.

I think in Hartlepool it was very pro brexit but their MP continued to campaign for a second referendum etc - whichever way round that had been (ie. if it had been a remain area and their mp had continued to be loudly pro leave and eg. hard brexit) it would be understandably unappealing to vote for an mp who put their own agenda ahead of representing their constituents.

I'm another who sees nothing constructive from the left these days and am embarrassed by the infantile if you don't agree you're a bigot level of engagement. I've never voted tory and hopefully never will but I have to admit I find people on the right more willing to discuss their beliefs and reasoning for their political positions and I find those positions are actually quite diverse and reasoned even if I don't agree with them. The left reasoning can feel like a hymn sheet of pantomime morality that can't be deviated from without descending to insults and refusal to engage.

I totally understand that being off putting along with implying anyone not on that hymn sheet is thick, old, racist etc.

One of the think harder type questions put to my year 9s last week was, 'did the English really win against the Armada or did the Spanish just lose?'.

Replace English with tories, and Spanish with Labour and it's a pertinent question.

I live in a staunchly Tory area, which has always baffled me, given the demographic. Most people seem to be actively voting for an MP whose beliefs and voting patterns are causing them real harm. It's as if they can't or won't make the connection between the party they vote for and the policies they get.

I think they see Johnson as a likeable, amusing buffoon, and brush off his lies etc as 'Just Boris being Boris.'

It's also overwhelmingly a Leave area. We have a huge Eastern European community and many people don't like it, so the Tory message of 'getting Brexit done' led to an increased majority for our MP.

I don't know what the solution is, really. Labour certainly doesn't seem to be an appealing alternative for any floating voters. I don't think the very public in-fighting is helpful at all.

I can't forgive KS for throwing us and the unions under the bus. "Schools must reopen no ifs or buts " wasn't it? No if it's safe, no but what about school workers rights to safety? No if they have proper mitigations like masks?

That statement is all I can think of when I see him now.

@TheHoneyBadger

I can't forgive KS for throwing us and the unions under the bus. "Schools must reopen no ifs or buts " wasn't it? No if it's safe, no but what about school workers rights to safety? No if they have proper mitigations like masks?

That statement is all I can think of when I see him now.

That's what put me off. I was a labour member. I emailed them my disgust and got a short thrift reply. So I left.

Agree with everything you've said, Honey.

ID politics and the woman question are spoken about a lot by people who find themselves unable to vote Labour. Older relatives, traditional types, swing voters, just want the best for the country and the economy types, think Labour is just chasing the youth vote and that's it. They need to address this.

"Pantomime morality" is a great phrase. When educated, self-styled moralists (lots of teacher friends, if I'm honest) say "Tory scum" "Kill a tory" how do they think that puts them on a moral high ground?

And you can't win an election without the centre ground/floating voters/neutral observers...or at least relying on them staying at home.

Tory Scum isn't new though : that's been a phrase since the 80s. Don't know why it has of late become so particularly shocking.

Maybe it's because I grew up in socialist Glasgow?

Genuinely, I don't think women and the whole trans thing is a reason beyond again MN and metropolitan circles. I may be wrong. I have never heard anyone talking about it. I think it's a niche issue. That's why politicians keep away form it : it neither wins nor loses votes. My own quick test last week revealed not a single person I know over 35 knew what TERF means.

I agree about the school thing but education is also a niche issue , it seems.

Basically The Times today just argues that people like Boris. And that the whole chaotic lifestyle does him no harm.

I quote : 'Keir would be a lovely husband but you wouldn't want to have sex with him'

Now , I reckon Boris would be bad at both!!