The Fifty-Sixth Republic - Who is up for a game of TAG?

[StaffRepFeistyClub]

You are most welcome to this school staff support thread to get us through stressful times. It is meant for school staff only – a sort of room of requirement. Baiters, haters, goaders, and bashers can jog on somewhere else.

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That doesn’t look much like a bow tie to me and I can see that “method” doing more harm than good in some cases. I try hard to avoid any method that references a picture, vocabulary or point of view that children might not recognise, be familiar with or believe. My DD rejected the idea of the number line because it was illustrated with a frog jumping along it. She said frogs jump randomly, not in straight lines. I was taught that the mode was the “most fashionable” average when at school, but even in the sixties that term was archaic in everyday speech. I could think of other examples but I’m too idle, if I do I’ll list them, purely for my own interest.

My DD is a bit stroppy BTW.

Not sure what to teach him for the best. DD was taught all these methods but never used them. Her target is always ‘show your working out’ and her response is ‘why, if I know the answer?’

I might just tell him the old fashioned columns and face the wrath of his teacher 😆

@noblegiraffe

Just showed it to my Y3 and she didn't recognise it so I guess they don't do it in her school, just column method.

Yeah wtf is the aversion to columns now? I don't get it and it used to infuriate me a bit that ds's primary would change the language and method all the time.

We had some kind of wooden blocks I seem to remember for a visual of hundreds, tens, units etc as a visual aid and understanding where each went but it fed into understanding the columns methods and having a visual.

Ds had quite a shock at secondary being expected to show working out when he didn't really seem to have been given the common language (method whatever you want to call that) for demonstrating how he worked it out.

They seem to be all emphasis on mental maths but maths (when it comes to big numbers or multiple stages and having to show your working out) needs some structure and commonly acknowledged methodology. The mental maths, imo, is personal as in if you asked ten numerate people my age a maths question and then told them to explain what they did in their heads to get to the answer there'd be a diversity of approaches that make total sense to one person but are counter intuitive to another.

Sorry. I may be taking my angst at new exercise leggings making me look showing that I am seriously obese out on maths methods.

And surely that column method is the foundation on which it's easy to teach decimals and numbers below zero and later numbers of magnitude etc?

Rafa I started a thread about the LFT daily testing trial in the covid topic www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4221894-Clinical-trial-in-secondary-school-children-to-replace-isolation-of-close-contacts-with-daily-testing

White Rose are terrible for shoehorning different visual methods of addition and subtraction into one lesson. Part/Whole models, arrays, number lines.....
I’m with your DD, born. Introduce any extra info into a maths lesson and I’d veer off at a tangent trying to understand how that was Mathematical.

I can see that “method” doing more harm than good in some cases

Indeed, born, how does it scale up to adding hundreds, or three digits to two digits? Lines everywhere, inevitably joining to the wrong numbers or being missed.

@motherrunner

Totally going off topic but can I pick the brains of Yr 2/Maths teachers? DS is struggling to subtract numbers when they’re both greater than 10. He can add easily enough using the ‘bow tie’ method. What’s the method for subtraction? I asked DD but as she just ‘sees’ answers she just shrugged and told me the answer!

I'd use partitioning, preferably with objects. You can use dienes apparatus or counters. You can use different coloured counters (or buttons, or sweets) for the tens and ones. I find it helps, especially with recombining. You can actually see that you need to swap 10 ones for 1 ten because otherwise you don't have enough tens. I'd move one to written methods only once she is confident with practical.

White Rose are terrible for shoehorning different visual methods of addition and subtraction into one lesson. Part/Whole models, arrays, number lines

God yes, it's awful. Kids who get maths easily have no problem with that, kids who struggle REALLY struggle. I get the theory of teaching lots of different methods, but meh. Some kids just need to know how to do it.

I've just sat down to do some work, first proper time this holiday. Child is wailing under my desk about how 'nobody understands' her. How come it's so hard for partner to keep her away from me when I'm working? He's managed 6 days work out of the 9 days she's been off school, because I kept her away from him. It's that whole not quite getting how teacher 'holidays' work again, even though his mum was a teacher and I've been one for the whole time I've known him. Raaah. It's not my job to find childcare for the days we both need to work, and since you're not working today, just TAKE HER OUT.

this is irrational annoyance linked to the fear finally kicking in about Monday, because actually he's usually fine with all this

DD, yr4, uses column method. Seems the simplest by far. This is how she is taught in school and we use the same method at home.

The 'bow tie' method shown above misses the vital part of partitioning first.
See attached pic.

Depending on whether or not, all the questions are similar i.e. adding multiples of 10, I think it also misses the fact that it might not be the best method for adding multiples of 10.
If they are all adding/subtracting multiples of 10, I think I'd be getting the Diennes and a place value chart out and linking to knowledge of number bonds within 10.

@motherrunner

Totally going off topic but can I pick the brains of Yr 2/Maths teachers? DS is struggling to subtract numbers when they’re both greater than 10. He can add easily enough using the ‘bow tie’ method. What’s the method for subtraction? I asked DD but as she just ‘sees’ answers she just shrugged and told me the answer!

I've not seen it called the bow tie method before, but is basically partioning the tens and ones which is a precursor to understanding the column method and important before it is introduced. With subtraction I would do similar by subtracting the ones and then the tens understanding bridging 10, so that exchanging makes sense later. Dienes blocks are great for visualising but I also like a number line. Some form of column method is usually introduced in Year 2 but taught more formally taught in Year 3 onwards.

Thanks everyone. I did think the ‘bow tie’ was confusing, I was trying to work out how it would be used for subtraction but all the lines were confusing me. DS can add, multiply and divide confidently but for some reason he really struggled with subtraction.

Just had a lovely few hours at Challenge Academy which is a variation of Go Ape. Well I had a lovely few hours sitting in the sun, DH and the kids went crazy on the ropes.

Gah, I hate all of these different methods that White Rose flit between. I taught year 2 for years before managing to escape, and am still an LA moderator for that age, so I see a lot of schools that follow WR slavishly end up with kids who struggle to add and subtract two digit numbers accurately because they never ‘settle’ on a method for those they cannot do mentally.

It’s also a huge PITA for the year 3 teacher, who then has to unpick all this nonsense and teach column method, starting with dienes to underpin understanding.

Luckily our SLT doesn’t expect us to follow WR to the letter, and our calculation policy focuses on different representations as a lead in to formal methods. Otherwise I’d lose the will to live.

The gym was hard work but lovely and quiet and I feel good for going.

I've got planning and marking to do this weekend but I'm putting it off for now.

How are those coming to the end of their Easter break feeling? I'm a week back and feel like I've never been away

The white rose representations vex me at year 7&8. I bin a lot of them and go with consistent bar models. There comes a time when one method is needed.

Hello everyone. Belated placemark - thanks for the new thread Staff
That's really interesting about WR @Timeturnerplease. We've just started using it so I'll watch out for too much flitting about.
I'm coming to the end of my break @TheHoneyBadger and am dreading going back. Not recovered from last term, and brain so foggy that I haven't managed to do what I should have done over the holidays.
I keep telling myself 'it'll be alright on the night 😬'
Have decided to give my notice this term and to take a break next term so am nervous about what the response to that will be.

How are those coming to the end of their Easter break feeling?

I'm 100% certain I don't want to be a teacher any more. That's how I'm feeling! Going to enjoy the next year or two (or try to), then leave. I need that time to sort out the alternative. I expect that feeling will reduce somewhat once the kids are in and things get going again, but yep... it's time. This year has finished me off. None of the fun stuff just shows up how crap the crap stuff actually is.

I'm drinking Mai Tais in the garden with other :)

*mother

Wish I could could crack open the wine but DD’s dance class starts back today - 5pm! What a time! She’s got a trial for a football team Monday so she needs to make a decision what she wants to pursue.

Feeling okay about start of term. Marking up to date to tackle the endless mocks that will be hitting us this half term but apart from that it’ll be a breeze!

Haven't had a Mai Tai since I was last in Thailand so at least 15 years (I'm old).

How does it feel to decide that Rule?

BigBob - yeah 2 weeks didn't undo the year for me and my brain is just in make it to summer mode and going away mode. We'll manage.

We can have cocktails on our road trip