The broom cupboard 2 - just for when we get briefly stranded without a staffroom

[TheHoneyBadger]

I'll pop a link in the old one so you know where to find safe haven. I have tried to clear out some space by getting rid of the ohp and vcr trolley and gin is hidden behind the sick sand bucket.

Was it the ONS schools infection survey?

I guess one of the problems with getting Y7s to eg write a page is that you’ve probably little idea (at least not without reading a lot of stuff that there’s no time to read and retain) who in the class can do that and who definitely couldn’t, so you end up going for a pretty low common denominator? The problem of not knowing a class and what work they’ve done to lead them up to that point.

Yes but I think it's also a sense that comprehension type tasks are somehow to be sneered at or using a textbook isn't proper teaching. They then rapidly use the ability to do that when actually much of your learning and literacy in real life will be based on being able to read text and understand it and demonstrate/utilise that understanding.

lose the ability - not use the ability

I have a strong hunch, bordering on concrete evidence that students write far more and better in history than they do in English.

In year 7/8, I mean, not primary.

Their teachers or TAs come with them to transition day. This year, we're going to get them to do their transition work in their new English book...

Are you definitely having transition days? We're assuming that they may not be allowed still...

Thanks noble - so there’s been Rounds 1 and 2 already! (Sounds like 🥊):

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/covid19schoolsinfectionsurveyround2england/

So the first results were the ones that told us there were no issues in schools, is that correct?

We're planning to. We've been asked by the local feeders to provide two weeks of literacy transition work. That was a hard no.

Honey
I would absolutely love to lead ks3 but secondary treats them like they're just a trivial matter parked in a holding bay whilst focusing on exam years as if our year 11's just spring up out of the ether rather than being taught all the way up to that point and that teaching actually having some importance.

I actually could get quite upset/annoyed about it because this is 100% true when I think about our local secondaries.

The main school we send on to repeats the entirety of the Y6 Maths curriculum as Y7. It's their whole year. At a friend's school, he is the sole Maths teacher for several Y7, Y8 and Y9 classes despite not being a teacher and the fact he had to do a 'catch-up' qualification because he didn't pass his GCSE when he sat it.

From a partner project I did with them, I found the quality of the writing dropped significantly. When I had the leadership of the secondary come to us to observe and see the the kid's work, the DHT quite openly said they don't see that same quality of independent writing again until Y9.

The thing is that this is known. There's even the 'Key Stage 3: the wasted years?' report from 2015 but nothing is changing. There needs to be the proper time and money invested in KS3 (including work on attracting more teachers into the profession) to deal with this. Just imagine if the progress was steady through from KS2 into KS4: you'd never have a panic or worry about kids reaching their targets at GCSE again!

Teachers no more likely to have antibodies than general population’ is how it was reported in March. Critics said they weren’t comparing like with like.

Also found this which looks interesting
www.hdruk.ac.uk/projects/enhancing-the-utilisation-of-covid-19-testing-in-schools-studies-the-joint-analysis-of-the-ons-covid-19-school-infection-survey-and-covid-19-mapping-and-mitigation-in-schools-commins-study/

@DanglingMod

In year 7/8, I mean, not primary.

I'm history - we make them write so much and have really high expectations of how they should be able to use evidence and 'explain' and compare and link ideas etc. It makes for a lot of marking but I think it is a good thing overall and it means we're pushing and stretching all the way through.

I'm going to aim to build on that with some independent reading and comprehension too, however unfashionable, because we need them to tackle sources and interpretations without being spoon fed them.

In a combination of exhaustion and poor resourcing I've been using more textbook page type resources with my ks3 in the last couple of weeks (we've moved onto units that clearly no one has worked on in years and they're very 'bare') and it has revealed to me that yes these kinds of task do have value but my god the kids are lazy and horrified at the idea that they have to actually look for an answer (even though we've read the text together and discussed with key questioning throughout) when they come to write things up. I'm having to go - top of the page, on the right, re-read that paragraph and then they're like ohhh yeah. They seem to be lacking the ability to do basic things like skim and scan and look out for a keyword etc.

But would the only way to achieve linear progression from KS2 to KS4 be to have class teachers rather than subject (obviously impossible!)?

I don't think we're guilty of many of those things at our place and, in fact, our mantra is that KS3 is more important than ks4. All year groups are equally taught by specialists, the curriculum is broad and deep...

Some kids don't seem to perform at the level they allegedly come up to at, though, and I don't know what it is, if it's not confidence (theirs) or expectations (ours) or cheating on the part of the primaries (not unheard of, of course, but surely rare)?

Maybe there's also the issue of socialising in a new way, hormones, new subjects like MFL taking brain power away?

When I had the leadership of the secondary come to us to observe and see the the kid's work, the DHT quite openly said they don't see that same quality of independent writing again until Y9

I think that's likely because for some reason they're not even asked to do that level of independent writing in many subjects/schools again until year 9 sadly.

I think that's likely because for some reason they're not even asked to do that level of independent writing in many subjects/schools again until year 9 sadly.

This is definitely us. I was working with super local feeders before the first lockdown and it was eye opening. The plan was for every English teacher to go in... but the feeling from the hod was that there was nothing we could learn

I see your point about class teachers Jan. There's the danger in secondary that those kind of key, needed across the board skills, are always seen as someone else's responsibility (likely English).

When I taught there was massive emphasis (and a column that had to be filled on lesson plan forms) on cross curricular links, in particular numeracy and literacy. I don't see that now and I imagine it's very easy when you're under high pressure to cover a huge amount of subject specific content to see their basic skills of literacy (eg not fronted adverbials but really basically stuff like skimming and scanning a page for relevant information, knowing how to summarise etc) as outside your remit. Totally understandable as everything is so ram packed and ability is so diverse but yes, unfortunate for the kids that those skills aren't being revisted, made explicit, reinforced etc. I do try.

That should say when I trained, not when I taught. Sorry. I've fasted all day and broken my fast with a g&t rather than food because unless ds is here whinging for dinner I don't think of cooking or eating and he's out playing. Seems to be effecting MY literacy skills despite my opinions still being strong

"The problem of not knowing a class and what work they’ve done to lead them up to that point."

Perhaps part of the transition records that are passed up should contain a piece of unaided writing done at around the time of the SATs in May.

I think primary puts a lot of skills in place and then ks3 secondary and being in subject classes has the danger of being all about ramming in a load of knowledge and content and letting those skills lay neglected.

@JanFebAnyMonth

But would the only way to achieve linear progression from KS2 to KS4 be to have class teachers rather than subject (obviously impossible!)?

I don't think so. Don't get me wrong, it definitely helps that, at primary, I have to deal with the whole child so everything about them is my responsibility rather than just one aspect. It's also why I prefer single-form primaries to teach in.

However, I think the progress would be strengthened significantly by two main things.

1. raising the expectations to match previous ones.
   We know they are the "babies" of secondary but they are not actual babies and are capable of so much independence and critical thinking. A few weeks ago, I had a guest from the secondary school talking to the children about secondary values. He explained the words resilience and curiosity to them, stating that, of course, they wouldn't know them.

2. prioritising teaching across all year groups, not just GCSE years.
   You wouldn't have anywhere near the stress over Y10 and Y11 if the children had received quality teaching in Y7, Y8 and Y9. But I accept that isn't possible without attracting a lot more people into teaching.

But I mean, ffs, I know one boy who sat a GCSE in Spanish having never had a Spanish teacher. Just five years of cover supervisors.

It's just my opinion but it matches with what I've seen in our local secondaries, my friends' schools and my relatives' schools.

Our ks3 maths has let down the top end this year because of mixed ability. We just don't know how to do it well enough to support all of the students. Ordinarily we find the curriculum stretches the top end and supports the weak end. The difficult but is the students who come in ~100, some have been clearly trained through sats and then forgotten everything. The others are genuine 100ish but with some gaps and going back to try and fill the gaps successfully is tricky. By December of Y7 I can predict which students will be the 3-4 borderlines in year 11.

Perhaps part of the transition records that are passed up should contain a piece of unaided writing done at around the time of the SATs in May

Or better yet scrap the sats and let secondaries and primaries work together at deciding what students need to know, be able to do etc and how to ensure a continuity? Obviously impossible as it would mean trusting teachers and schools to be the experts.

It makes us Primary bods want to cry when we send kids off writing fabulous prose in a beautiful cursive script in ink pen, only to see them swagger back to visit in the first term of Yr 7 saying they're "allowed" to print and use biro now, and it's all "really easy."

We DO know that they're bull-shitting although knowing the local school most of them go to, maybe not.