What would happen in your school if a child screamed in your face?

[Screaminyourface]

A year 8 boy walked out of a homework detention with me. I caught him outside the pastoral room and shouted at him to get in and sit down. He turned round, put his face about ten inches from mine and screamed at me. I honestly thought he was going to attack me.

What would happen in your school if a pupil did this? Interested in the punishment for the child, as well as the reaction from management and colleagues.

Well, true GPs do not shout . In my experience.

Police officers , however... shout, swear, tackle, restrain, use sarcasm and lock people up . Doesn't mean it's acceptable the other way round.

I’ve no idea if a GP would shout if a patient made lewd comments, pissed around and stropped off. I wouldn’t blame them if they did.

GPs aren’t in a position of seniority over their patients though? I am allowed to wear my own clothes and refer to teachers by their first names and use a particular set of stairs and have a drink that’s not water in a classroom because I am an adult member of staff and they are not? It’s not ideal to shout, but the OP has already acknowledged that. If the student had just shouted back from a distance away (like the OP did) I’d say maybe they were having a bad day too, but there is a big difference between that and shouting/screaming in someone’s face. Respect goes both ways though, I wouldn’t tolerate a teacher shouting in a student’s face either.

I agree wheresthesoundman

Teachers are in a role of superiority. It’s like that thread in the summer where a teacher was worried about having to run the teachers’ race. There were lots of ridiculous responses saying that if the children had to run then the teachers should have to run. No, no, no. It’s not the same rules for children and teachers/adults.

I'm with Curly here. Well said, and absolutely true.

I'm in primary so not a lot.
My first day a kid squared up at me an shouted in my face "I'll fucking punch you in your fucking fat face". They missed some play while they wrote(badly) an apology letter. Fun stuff.

How was today OP?

In my school a child getting in a teacher's face doesn't happen very often, so when it does happen it's quite shocking and dealt with very firmly. There would be at least a day in isolation, and parents would be spoken to by head of year or possibly deputy head depending how many times that child has been in serious bother.

I had a pupil tell me to "grow up!" today, as I was removing him from my class to work in a sixth form lesson (department policy when they have been consistently disruptive). He has a detention from me for the disruption and will be spoken to by head of year tomorrow with another detention and an apology letter for the rudeness. That wasn't even an aggressive act (it was very rude in tone, and most certainly a huge escalation from the calm and reasonable tone I was using), just rude.

I work part-time so, not in today/ tomorrow. I'm not at all sure I'll make it to Christmas without getting signed off

Take heart, OP - not long now until the Christmas Break. You can do this. I know it's hard, but please try to take a step back, a deep breath, and don't let these kids - and unsupportive colleagues - get you down.

Remember that it IS just a job. I know we are encouraged to view it as some kind of vocation or calling... but it isn't, it's a job where the pay keeps the wolves from the door, just like any other job.

Pick your battles. Keep calm and stay consistent.

Best of luck.

Get signed off till Christmas then? If things are genuinely that bad?

1. it sounds like things are pretty bad if you’re considering it with 1 week to go

2. it might give your school a kick up the arse to support you better on your return

What else is the issue? One kid hasn’t made you feel like this.

There are still schools where things like this are a truly rare occurrence. I have never experienced lewd comments or a student shouting in my face and wouldn't expect to. Do whatever you need to get through till Christmas (and if that is being signed off then do it) then get stuck in to the post Christmas job ads.

I agree, get signed off if you are this stressed. No job is worth your mental health.

You can talk to us about whatever issues are causing such a lot of stress, but we're not really a great substitute for a supportive person in real life. We're better than nothing, but a real life person is even better!!

I’m sorry you were shouted at. I do think there is an element of reaping what you sew. He is clearly struggling. I’m not sure your current tactics are working.
All behaviour is communication.
I truly believe one teacher can change a child’s life. Get support and learn how.

I don't think it's twatty responses.
I think it's different experiences.

I have already said I'd expect slt to look into it but I also don't think you can expect behaviour to change suddenly through constant punishment if it isn't changing through constant punishment.
Behaviour is a form of communication. If consequence isn't working and in some cases escalating the situation the reaction is likely telling you there is more going on.

The question can not be answered in black and white because context is everything in cases like this.

I ALWAYS offer staff a debrief after any incident of threatening behaviour. But alongside this I have a high success rate of changing behaviours and have respect from staff and high positive response to training I do on managing behaviours and preventing situations escalating.

But I'm special school so maybe that's different?

You a Teacher feeling??

Special School is entirely different.

Curly those children leaving lessons or kicking objects etc are often children with send who are placed inappropriately in settings or places without the correct support.
Do you really believe punishments work for children who cannot manage a situation because an adult has placed them there is helping them learn how to manage their anger or self regulate?

Thee will always be the odd child who basically has lack of respect and are a PITA. But assuming a child is being difficult on purpose off the bat without trying to understand why isn't always effective and can actually make the situation worse.

Thee will always be the odd child who basically has lack of respect and are a PITA.

This number tends to increase in schools with crap behaviour management by SLT. Plenty of kids willing to kick off if they think they’ll get away with it.

I do not know how teachers carry on TBH. I am governor at a very small rural primary and I am blown away by their dedication. It is easier for them because of the size of the school - it is like a large family. There truly is very little in the way of bad behaviour.

I honestly think that schools are just too big - so big that they become unmanageable.

Schools should have behaviour policies that support staff properly.

It’s not just having policies. It’s using SLT who will actually back you up in enforcing them.

I’m not a teacher, but you did nothing wrong.
It’s clear why some kids get away with stuff when people try to excuse you being verbally abused
Ofcourse it’s your fault op, you dared to raise your voice

feeling or may be this kid has just been allowed to get away with bad behaviour because nobody has ever pulled him up on it? No excuse for what he did.

I’m sorry you’re feeling so down, and there’s clearly other stuff going on that’s contributing to how low you are feeling. Dealing with aggression is exhausting and frightening and the feeling of losing control is awful. Behaviour management is all an illusion-smoke and mirrors-once the kids realise that you can’t control them because of poor leadership and weak SLT then the illusion has disappeared and anarchy reigns.

What’s shocking and depressing is how familiar this scenario is to those of us working in secondary state education in the UK at the moment. This poor behaviour and lack of respect is endemic and ingrained. And it takes a whole community and supportive parents and staff to solve it.

Shouting at a pupil at a distance to come back into a detention that they are leaving without permission (and presumably potentially going AWOL on the school site which is a safeguarding issue in itself after hours) is totally different to screaming threatening language in someone’s face.

Tinnedpeaches, you have hit the nail on the head. Yes, as someone posted upthread, schools have a problem dealing with SEND children who are not being given adequate support in schools but I think school staff are well aware of who their SEND pupils are, treat any SEND behaviour according to how they are trained to do/told to treat by the SENCO. and ultimately this thread is not about SEND children and their behaviour
It is about the NT children who don’t want to follow school rules and so don’t follow them. How on earth do you manage hundreds of pupils who decide that they will ignore the rules and many of the parents back then up? What you get is anarchy, as Tinnedpeaches says. I have seen mini riots at my school. I really don’t think some people know how bad it is in some schools.

Also the vast vast majority of my colleagues from my entire teaching career treat pupils with SEND with compassion and care, we realise when a behaviour management strategy has not worked for some reason or has caused unnecessary anxiety and try our best to vary our tactics to support that pupil but also crucially maintain a positive learning environment for all.

Teachers make mistakes every single day (speaking for myself here!) but it is an imperfect system where you are under huge pressure, and it is so frustrating when a member of SLT who didn’t witness the incident or doesn’t teach the child in question then tells you how to manage it better. Best deputy head I ever worked with knew every child by name and insisted on teaching KS3 games every year so he learnt who they all were. He never once in 5 years we worked together undermined another member of staff. However he dealt with serious issues immediately and decisively when there were staff mistakes involved and his safeguarding and professionalism were second to none. I would work for him Again like a shot! Sadly few and far between.

Not alot but don't work in mainstream so getting bitten doesn't even get acknowledged half the time.