What would happen in your school if a child screamed in your face?

[Screaminyourface]

A year 8 boy walked out of a homework detention with me. I caught him outside the pastoral room and shouted at him to get in and sit down. He turned round, put his face about ten inches from mine and screamed at me. I honestly thought he was going to attack me.

What would happen in your school if a pupil did this? Interested in the punishment for the child, as well as the reaction from management and colleagues.

@Piggywaspushed I am, and I have been for a long time. I've NC, but you've been on several of my threads. Thank you for your kindness.

Some ignorant, naiive and twatty non-teaching replies on this thread.

I hope these people realise that behaviour has declined massively in schools in the past 10 years. The kids know they are untouchable. Unfortunately the kids who WERE initially respectful of authority in year 7 very very quickly get a handle on the behavioural culture in the school. They watch and learn. If they see another kid walking out of a lesson without permission and very little coming of it, or a kid 2 years above running amok kicking classroom doors during lesson time, then that almost “permits” them to take part in low level disruption/produce little work/talk all the way through the lesson. Because, in their eyes, at least they’re actually staying in the classroom compared to these other kids. It snowballs.

So no, there isn’t always a reason for a kid doing something as nasty as screaming in a teacher’s face. Sometimes it’s just what they’ve been doing to their parents with no consequences for YEARS since being small. They just continue the behaviour at school. And then when their parent comes to collect the child from school they’re complaining to the staff about how their child has been shouted at by a teacher. Honest to god, parents are the worst thing about working in a school. As demonstrated by some of the comments on this thread.

I don’t usually shout at my kids. They are polite and well-behaved and never had a detention. On the odd occasion I or their dad HAVE shouted at them, they know they are in trouble and that they’ve gone too far. and they apologise. 10 years ago in my school the same would happen if you shouted at a pupil when it was deserved. now, as Op has reported they are likely to scream in your face, or physically attack you.

We have lost control of that generation. Seriously.

Reaction from management = training.
But what you really need is buckets of sympathy, hand-holding because you were frightened and to either move to a school that has better behaviour management/polite children or to join the exodus.

I have been told off on another thread for 'shouting' today. At a politician. It seems we are not allowed. Decorum at all times please!

In my school currently probably nothing if this had happened to a regular classroom teacher - although I would imagine if this was a member of slt isolation ect would happen. Behaviour is getting worse and consequences seem few and far between - I feel like whenever a child behaviour badly the first thing people do is pick faults with the teacher

Gosh, you can tell who are the parents and who are the teachers on this thread! Some people have absolutely no idea what it’s like to be a teacher. It is absolutely fine to raise your voice and be firm with a child who is misbehaving. The snowflake won’t melt. Get real parents!

Sorry you’re getting this bashing OP. Hope you are ok. A horrid experience for you. It’s the type of thing that leaves you really shaken. The SLT should be dealing with this and checking you’re ok. Anything less is unacceptable.

curly hear hear!

This would likely result in a fixed term exclusion at my school. This behaviour is completely unacceptable.

I shouted at my own kids today. They were screaming at each other in the car and a quick shout stunned them into shutting up and behaving.

Maybe I should have given them a hot chocolate and a serious discussion about whose bag was on whose side of the seat.

OP if you’re at the end of your tether, please consider looking for a job in a school that tajes behaviour seriously instead of simply packing in teaching. We can’t afford to lose good teachers.

Absolutely agree curly. Too many parents trying to be friends with their children rather than parenting them. Children need to be taught how to behave and sometimes this means being firm with them and making sure they know that wrong choices have consequences. If we tip toe round children and make them feel they can do wrong, then we create children who have no resilience and show no respect. Schools are really up against it trying to right these wrongs.

Rubbish for you OP, not a lot would happen in my school unless you were slt, then all hell would break loose.
But if you are a regular teacher, middle leader then basically it would be ignored. If you pushed really hard they might get a day or more likely your next lesson with them in our own very lovely touchy feely not too hard isolation room ( no longer even called that in case of upsetting the little darlings).
I do at least have a decent core of properly supportive colleagues who would check I was ok, nothing official or from those higher up.

Maybe I should have given them a hot chocolate and a serious discussion about whose bag was on whose side of the seat.

You mean you didn’t spend half an hour negotiating and analysing the situation before having a group hug .....

Yes, and the experienced teachers who have witnessed the decline in behaviour are all leaving. They no longer want to take being screamed at or sworn at. Or told by SLT that they aren’t managing behaviour properly rather than being backed up by SLT. To be replaced by.....NQTs with little experience of what is the “norm” in terms of accepted behaviour, or of how to manage serious behaviour happening daily. And so it escalates..... very sad.

I do think if some parents, or even ex teachers out of the system for a decade or longer, went into secondary schools for a week they would have their eyes opened.

Op, I hope you have a bettter day tomorrow. You had every right to shout down the corridor/across the classroom at a child who was walking out of a detention. Let no-one tell you otherwise.

@TheWinterCaillech I am assuming you are being sarcastic, in which case, thanks for your support not if you're serious, yes I am looking for a new school.

@noblegiraffe I actually think my school has decent behaviour management one of the very few things I like about it I don't feel like I'm a good teacher at the moment. I mainly blame the school for this (long story)

Like piggy you have been on previous threads of mine and I always appreciate your support

I don't really know where to start to respond to your email Curly suggesting we didn't try normal parenting and a lot more, but my intervention doesn't help the OP whose post was about the lack of respect /support for teachers in the face of very challenging situations.

Sorry OP.

IME incidents like these need to be flagged up with MLT or SLT. Please Screaming let them know how distressed you felt. They won't be ticking the Ofsed boxes if they are not addressing the staff well being boxes.

I think they would get an inschool suspenion.

This behaviour is frequent where I work though so I don’t know if anyone would ask if you were ok unfortunately.
Self care is so important. Did you do something nice for yourself tonight?

Also do you have access to free counselling? We do in Australia, and I have also done some great workshops on vicarious trauma, Burnout is so common and if you don’t keep it in check it can impact your everyday

Every word that CurlyhairedAssassin wrote ^ is true.

If I called into my doctor's today I would see a sign telling me that rudeness towards their staff would not be tolerated. Same in hospital waiting rooms and even, I noticed recently, in the local post office.

Why is teaching the only profession where staff are expected to tolerate regular aggressive, intimidating behaviour. If it is not acceptable in hospital A and E where people can undoubtably be under terrible stress, then it is not acceptable in schools. Yes some kids can have awful home lives, stress ext, but if we first made it clear that nothing excused aggression towards staff, we would have a lot less of it in schools and would then have the time, resources and sympathy for staff to get the bottom of any underlying issues kids have.
There are so many behaviour problems in schools now that slt find it easier to 'counsel' staff on their supposedly poor class room management than to make it clear to recanciltrant pupils and their parents that the same rules of controlled behaviour apply in schools as apply in other institutions.

Lewd comments? To me that sounds worse than shouting in your face. What was he saying?

In my school it's inconsistent unfortunately. But I'd expect at least a day's isolation.

Not a teacher, have a number of friends who are.

If one of my DC were making lewd comments I’d have zero issue with them being shouted at and I would push for a harsh punishment at school and give them a bollocking at home.

Hope you have a better day OP.

At my school there would probably have been a cummalative internal exclusion for walking out/shouting in my face. However, the school have recently changed their isolation room from booths to a more open plan style. Certain students think this is preferable to actually sitting detentions, so don't bother going to their detentions at all any more.

I had a ks3 student shout in my face recently, quite aggressively, when I was talking to him calmly after class about his behaviour - so I don't think you shouting triggered this behaviour. A few older students I teach were passing and they actually asked if I was OK as they were shocked by the levels of aggression.

I don't know if it is actually the case but I feel like the number of kids showing behaviour like this and things like punching walls and general aggression has increased in recent years. I think some of the posters on this thread ought to remember that other students have to witness this behaviour, and maybe think about the impact it can have on them.

And yes, I hope you have a better day today!

I have immense respect for teachers - I pop in to various schools/Beavers etc. to do workshops and I have had my chips by the end of it. But - I do think that teachers should model good behaviour. If a teacher demonstrates that shouting is the way to deal with conflict then it is not surprising that the child does the same.

The GP surgery analogy does not work - I doubt whether GPs shout at their patients.

I am not ignoring the fact that teachers have to deal with children whose behaviour is bad (and deteriorating by all accounts) but that calls for a school-wide strategy, and clear protocols for dealing with this - not including shouting.