Feeling down about parental complaint.

[Rubylee87]

Would appreciate some advice as I'm feeling a bit down at the moment.

I've been teaching for 4 years. I recently started at a new school teaching lower Key Stage 2. New class are very low ability, there are some lovely children but also a few boys with challenging behaviour.

One in particular is very disruptive. He constantly shouts out, makes unkind remarks to other children, he's so loud he distracts every child on his table, constantly saying silly things, shouting "excuse me" when I'm trying to help other children. He's extremely rude to adults (answering back, eye rolling etc.) He pushed another child over at break time and showed me unnecessary attitude before trying to walk off in a mood when I attempted to speak to him about it. He has no SEN but has been tested for ADHD in the past.

On the first day, when I was talking to the class about the school rules, he was shouting out silly things in a high pitched voice. During independent working time, I gave him lots of warnings and eventually asked him to move to a table on his own to complete his work as he was disturbing the other children. He chose to face the back wall as he said he worked better that way.

The next day, the headteacher came to speak to me. His parents had put in a complaint because I moved him, saying I was not being inclusive and their son was worried he would have to sit there forever. This is untrue, as I was very positive about moving him, making it more about him being able to concentrate and made it clear it was just for that session.

I had a meeting with his dad after school in which I explained what happened and it became clear his son had gone home and exaggerated. I told him about his son being rude and he said 'he's the same at home' and 'he's always been in trouble at school'. He said all of this while hugging his son. I feel that instead of this, perhaps he should have been having a serious conversation with him about his behaviour at school.

I was respected at my last school and often received lovely comments about how caring and positive I am with children. I can't believe I've had a complaint made about me on the first day, when I was only trying my best to teach without this boy affecting the learning of the other children. I fear this will get worse too, as they will probably complain every time I do something their son doesn't like. I don't like that I've been made out to be a teacher who excludes children, which is what this parent was accusing me of.

Why isn't the Head Teacher supporting you in this? Why were you expected to meet with the parents without additional support?
My HT would have dealt with this herself and told the parent very clearly the school's stance on disruptive behaviour.

Sorry you're going through this.

I'm not a teacher but I wanted to say I feel for you. I see so many kids out and about with appalling, unchallenged behaviour. I'll never understand it. I was taught to respect teachers and even at age 2 my oldest is learning please and thank you. I can't imagine how some parents not all fail so awfully but then blame the teacher for addressing it!

Was there any one else in the room during the meeting?

Perhaps start a home / school communication book to avoid this in the future, record all incidents and actions taken by you and invite his parents in at regular intervals to discuss.

Stand firm in the knowledge that you are right and don't be unsettled by this.

I've been new to a school and suddenly got a slew of complaints, when at my previous school I'd only ever had compliments and praise. It totally threw me. I soon realised there was a culture of complaining and the school was completely unsupportive and actually exacerbated the problem.

It's a shitty thing to complain about, you did nothing wrong. I really hope you feel better about it soon and you end up forging a good relationship with the parents.

I would say, as soon as he does something good, call them and let them know. Try and spin this into a good thing.

Your head should be supporting you and moving a child for persistent talking is appropriate. The parents should be more worried that their child got into trouble on his first day back than your response to his behaviour.

Vast majority of parents are lovely and supportive, but some live in denial about their children, some just can't cope and a few are just plain bonkers. Don't take the criticism to heart and I'd speak to his teacher from last year and see how she dealt with him.

You know perfectly well you have done nothing wrong what so ever, and are in a no win situation. Nothing you do will be right.

I am sorry you are feeling down.

That is the problem, not the system. The system is shit, and isn't going to change in a hurry. You have to live with it, we all do.

But you have to find a way for it not to bring you down, this is what matters. This is your job. I get that you want to do it well, but bottom line is you can't it isn't humanly possible in many cases

So you do the best you can, and put it out of your head when you don't have to be thinking about it, and get on with your real life.

if you can't do that, leave teaching. I'm serious. You sound like a decent, conscientious, caring teacher. harden up or leave, or the system will take you to pieces little bit by little bit until you no longer exist.

Nobody was there for the meeting, it was just me with the boy and his dad. I made it clear I didn't consider my actions wrong though. I would do the same with any other child behaving that way.

I'm concerned about the SLT and their reaction when anything like this is mentioned. I approached another member of SLT who is responsible for behaviour and reported a child who had deliberately injured someone in the playground (it was quite a serious incident imo). They just said "well, you need to deal with it and crack down so that you make sure it doesn't happen again!" It felt like they were making it out to be my fault when I had addressed it, I just wanted them to be aware. This particular child had lots of behavioural problems last year and was in an isolation unit for most of the year.

I am very worried. If this lack of support continues, it will be a difficult year.

Charis, I crossposted with you. I agree very much with what you said. In fact, I was so disillusioned with the system (mainly the way children are put under enormous pressure through testing etc.) and I nearly left teaching. Ironically, this school was my last shot. I wanted to try a different school to see if I could carry on with a job that I loved. Perhaps this may be my last year teaching. :(

Ugh. I know SLT like that.

Ok, my top tips? Email and record everything. Cover yourself, for everything.

It's a shame, because having decent people in charge of behaviour and pastoral care makes the world of difference.

Always ask parents to meet them without the child there. It's too undermining to justify yourself with a smirking 8 year old (or whatever) there.

Do not allow this to affect how you manage the boy. Will write more later - I'm out!

It's funny how the kids "with ADHD" always have parents like that... I've seen it so many times

I'm not a teacher either but I'm the parent of that child . My son does have SN, he has asd. He can be disruptive through silly noises. It's self stimulation. However he can't concentrate whilst he's doing it and neither can other children.

I suggested they had a table he could sit at on his own in class for the times he needed to self regulate. Ok, he may not get much more work done himself this way but the other children got the education they also deserved.
When he went to sit alone, and he learnt to take himself there, teacher or TA would go over and check he understood and/or support him. They wouldn't focus solely on him but he was given the same chance as the other children to complete the work.
Sometimes he would be taken by the ELSA to run around the playground for a few minutes and then settle again.

I agree you should have had more back up. If the parent has complained then it was clear you needed someone else as a witness in the conversation and to back you up. As a parent I never go to a meeting without someone there with me. That is to protect myself on the few times the school have clearly been wrong and are just out to protect themselves rather than work out how we can move forward.

I am totally for inclusion - but inclusion shouldn't be at the exclusion of others. It's working out what's best for all involved.

Thanks for your replies.

There are several children with ASD and ADHD in this class. In fact, I had a boy last year with severe ADHD and terrible concentration/ shouting out in class issues and I found him lively but also very engaging and witty. We had a good relationship. It's not the behaviour that comes with SEN that is the main issue.

With this boy, it's the rudeness I can't stand. You can't say anything to him without the tutting, eye rolling, aggressive attitude and conversations often end with him storming out of the room for no reason. He's quite obnoxious and he seems to have a problem with other people in general. What baffles me is that his dad basically admitted this and said he's always been like it. So why complain when I'm just doing my job?

have a nice weekend rubylee, do something fun and have a break from worrying about it.

Your professional judgement is good. Stick to it.

He's complaining because he doesn't understand how to manage his child. If he did, he would speak to you privately. His child is disrespectful and rude because the dad has role modelled that it is acceptable to behave like that.

At least he admitted he was poorly behaved at home. Some parents make out their kids are perfect at home.

I would pre-empt a meeting the next time. And have the child sitting on a chair outside the room. Once you have worked out a plan in conjunction with the parent, invite the child in and tell them your joint decision. He needs to know he is not in charge. If he walks out of class then he needs to make up the time at break or lunch.

You said you gave him lots of warnings. Stop that because it's not clear to him when he is running out of warnings. If there is an eye roll, ask him to step outside. Explain briefly you don't like that and he's not allowed to do it. Ask him to go back in and look as quickly as you can for something positive that he's doing. Notice the good as much as you can. If he calls out, just turn round to him and shake your head and carry on.

Don't worry about the dad. Find a way to get him in on your terms and work with him.

Your SLT sound unsupportive.

It is horrible when people do this but it is an inevitable part of teaching I think. Sometimes someone will make an unjustified complaint against you. I would try to put it into perspective in your mind (easier said than done I know) and remember that this kind of thing happens to all teachers sooner or later.

I found that if people were willing to have a discussion then I never minded, sometimes I felt they had a point and I promised to change something. But sometimes people were just waiting to have a pop.

Having said all that, your SMT don't sound helpful at all and I agree with the above advice to document everything in future.

Also, anyone else reading this, don't think that all teachers think that ADHD is the result of poor parenting.

Your SLT sounds unsupportive, so you need to protect yourself.

I have what I call my brain dump book. Whenever I get a break, I write down particular things that have happened in a class. It might be moving a disruptive child, things I have to remember (eg send a note home about Sally's hat etc), and also good things such as a child who has done something special or made a particular leap in their learning. I also record any phone calls home or phone calls I receive. For one thing, I can have a mind like a sieve sometimes and I can tick off any 'to do' items, but it also gives me some particular incidents for report time, and tracks patterns of behaviours. If a parent comes in, I can open my book and show where I did something and why. I will then record any conversations I have with a parent about anything (good and bad) as I can keep it as a reference for myself and produce it as evidence (eg Johnny's mum comes in and says I never told her that he was on yard duty, but I can show the book where I did speak to her/email/call/etc).

I'm not sure of your classroom layouts, but try and get friendly with the teacher in the room next to you. When "that" parent comes in and you think it may be a challenging conversation, you nip next door and ask the other teacher to come in to your room. Usually for us it's 'excuse me Ms Scribbler, I just need to use your laminator/copier/printer for a little while' and they paddle around in the back of the room listening in. I record the conversation in my book, and get the other teacher to sign to say they agree with my record of what was discussed. This has been invaluable when I've had a particularly difficult year group.

As hard as it is, try not to engage with your challenging student. Sometimes I will just stop talking and stand there. The other students will usually start telling the one mucking up to shush or sit down. Peer pressure is a fantastic thing. You need to find what this boys behaviour management strategy is. Last year I had a particularly challenging boy with ASD and if he mucked up, I would not say a word, just write '10' on the board. He knew that meant that he would spend ten minutes at recess or lunch on yard duty with me. If he settled and behaved I would count back down minutes on the board '9' '8', etc. Or it could go up if he didn't settle. It worked with him because he loved his recess, and I didn't need to say a word or stop my teaching.

A good strategy if you have a really unruly student/s is to buddy up with another teacher, particularly one in a vastly different grade to yours. Eg if you are in grade 1 you buddy up with a grade 6 teacher or the opposite. If a child is being particularly disruptive, they have to go to that teacher's room and finish their work. Getting them away from their usual audience is good, as children of a vastly different age group are often not interested in the antics of another (especially if you get a littlie going to a grade 6 room, they won't put up with it. It also gives you a break from the disruptive child for a while. You do this for each other, so you are supporting each other when needed.

Try and develop the strategies that works for this boy, then call the parent in and have a meeting with them. Agree between yourselves what sanctions will be for which behaviours. Write it all down and have the parent sign to say they agree with it, and keep a copy. Then they can't come back to you and say that you did something, because you will only be doing what they have already agreed to with you.

Good luck OP. Please don't give up, and do try to find something you like about this boy. Try not to let this impact the building of your relationship with him. You just may be that teacher that makes a real difference in his life.

I would suggest being very proactive rather than waiting for next parental complaint.

Call meeting with parents, yourself, pastoral SLT and SENCo. Have open, non-judgemental conversation about child needing to learn better behaviour for learning. Set targets- agree school and home action plan.

Start home-school book.

Talk to parents at least once a week about child's progress.

Consider whether any referrals need to be made (Behaviour support?) SENCo should be on this.

What a nightmare.

I agree about an incident book.

Record every incident .
Then you have evidence to support you.
Ask all members of staff to use the book too, then it isn't just you.

Good idea about having another member of staff present when talking to his father.

What does his father suggest you do ?

What does the head suggest?
How has his behaviour been managed previously?

Is the child new to the school? Otherwise there should have been some sort of handover from his last teacher e.g. strategies that have worked and strategies that haven't. The SENCO would have been involved, maybe a behaviour plan if your school does them. Your SLT sound completely unsupportive. Yes, there should be a reciprocal agreement between classes about using the other for time outs, it works for us. Agree about warnings, the whole class should know the expectations about behaviour, warnings and consequences. Two is enough, three is the limit. Good luck, hope you get the support you need both from the parents and other staff

I would ensure that you are following the school behaviour policy to the letter. Has this boy got an individual plan for his behaviour - if not, is it worth discussing this with SLT?

I would also e mail back any discussions you have with SLT "I'm just confirming the details of our discussion..." . My experience of weak SLT (and your SLT sound weak unfortunately) is that they are quite prepared to lie to twist facts so you need to have a paper trail of evidence.

However, I would pick your battles with this boy "eye rolling" is annoying but I would ignore and focus on the major behavioural issues. Speak to last year's teacher to find out what worked and didn't work. Focus as well on positives - find something specific you can praise him for as often as possible.

Also, with regard to choosing to sit with his back to the wall - I would say he recognises what is helping him. If he has ADHD traits then he needs minimum distraction and I have used desks like this in a positive way as a behaviour management strategy for children with ADHD or ASD.

As a parent of a child with ADHD that has absolutely been 'that child' for much of his school life I think what you did was absolutely right and I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. I would be glad of a teacher that was trying to address it and was prepared to work with me. I agree that regular contact through phonecalls/emails or a home/school book is really helpful to make sure parents have a true view of the whole picture and how things are developing. DS is at a special school now and doing well but we still have regular contact just to make sure we are all on the same page and there are no surprises.

I really hope that Angelica'a view is not the norm, I would like to think that none of my sons teachers would ever have said that I wasn't supportive and totally engaged with trying to find solutions. I have never wanted other pupils education to suffer because of my son.

Have you spoken to the boys previous teachers or had any decent handover? Whilst not defending the Dad as I think he needs to be more constructive, I wonder if he has been through this lots of times before and not made any progress, especially if SLT are not prepared to address it. I've lost count of how many meetings I had where the teacher or advisor had no knowledge of my son and I ended up explaining the same things over and over. Not saying that was you, but just wondering if the senior team are not great at working with staff whether the consistent, long term approach is also missing and so the Dad may have had that very meeting numerous times before and 'given up' trying to engage. I have seen that happen a lot (I work with lots of parents that have reached this stage or that have their own issues.)

I feel for you, my son has had some wonderful teachers and I have always felt horribly guilty about the pressure teaching him may have put on them, in a system that often fails everyone involved.

AngelicaDelight
I really object to your claim. My son has ADHD and can be very challenging in the classroom. I am under no illusions about how difficult he makes the teachers job and always support the teacher (at least in front of my child). If I disagree with the way things have been handled that is a conversation with only adults present. Not all children with ADHD have parents who pander to them thank-you very much.
OP I feel for you, I really do. It does sound from the way you have described the boy in your class that there may be SEN issues possibly ADHD. My son can be rude when nervous or worried. Lots of children withdraw in these situations but kids with ADHD get more vocal and challenging. You may find it settles a bit as he builds a relationship with you.
Good luck and don't feel bad, it sounds to me as if you handled things positively.