What do you think of governors - are they helpful for teachers?

[Sleepymorningcuddles]

I'm thinking of becoming a governor- but not at my kids' own schools.

I believe the best teachers are happy teachers and that everyone can do a crap job if the circumstances are bad.

So....what are your governors like? Do they affect your professional lives, for good or for ill?

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Well you have all your statutory data. For instance, every school must report on how much pupil premium funding they get and what it's been used for. Governors are also responsible for knowing how that usage has closed any progress/attainment gap in that group.

Progress data is gathered as part of teaching in any case, and it's just tabular manipulation to break down the progress into sub groups (sex, key stage, ethnicity, SEN, FSM, etc.).

You can ask for anything you want, but the Head can say no if they feel it's too difficult/time consuming for staff to gather.

Can you give an example?

Will have to think about it.

You know how with hospitals now they ask "would the staff want their own family to be treated here?" I'm thinking of that kind of question... You may be able to think of better questions!
So data, but not to do with levels necessarily.

I'm pretty sure that would be seen as a step too far, tbh. It is such a subjective issue -what is one person's ideal school is another's worst nightmare.

Also take it to its extreme -the majority of the staff are unhappy. What can you do as Governors to change that without becoming operational?

Working hours: The teachers have a set number of directed hours which the HT may set work for. As long as these are not exceeded, the HT is within their rights to direct and you can't undermine that.

Behavioural incidents are recorded.

Teaching standards: Progress data and attainment data should indicate the quality of teaching. Teacher (anonymised) performance review data will triangulate with that.

Parent satisfaction will be guaged from parent questionnaires and any parents evening feedback forms, plus any complaints data.

Any suggestion you make that directly impacts staff is likely to be operational. Governance is about strategy -where is the school now and where do we want it to be? How are we going to get there?

Got it. Could you influence the format of questionnaires though? You know how some some questionnaires are more like press-releases waiting to happen, whereas others allow you to change things/say more general things?

Yes. Different schools will do things their own way, but quite often the questionnaire for parents is formulated by the Governing Body, in collaboration with the HT.

I don't think questionnaires should be used to 'build a case' though. Its vital that the Governor - Head Teacher relationship, whilst challenging, is also supportive.

An example would be useful?

Great:

Example 1
"On a scale of 1-5, how strongly do you agree/disagree with the following statement: "A strong school needs a strong leader"."

that's an extreme and probably silly example but that kind of 1-5 question structure can be a bit "fixed" because the parent/staff member isn't really able to say no or to make their own points.

Whereas:
"What one thing would you change about our school?"
recently went out in the staff questionnaire in my own children's school and that was a great question because the head subsequently learnt things he hadn't expected to learn.

So if, for instance, I felt a head was designing questionnaires that "fixed" the type of answers that could be given, I'd want to be able to lobby for more mixed-type of questions.

off to work now but appreciate your expertise.

x sleepy

Your title asks if governors are helpful for teachers. How do you feel asking them to complete a questionnaire is helpful? If it is going to take their time, what's in it for them?
And - how is your personal "axe" helpful about music helpful?

Are you considering the role of governor to be "helpful" to teachers, and is that really what the role should be? Or are you more interested in raising the profile of music, having specialist music teachers, etc?

You shouldn't need to lobby, you should just be able to ask . To be honest, though, you need to bear in mind what you'd do with that information. Perhaps staff are 'unhappy' with the management of the HT - that doesn't in itself make it bad management. It may be very good management after a very permissive HT before them. Perhaps staff are very, very, happy. That doesn't mean management is good (from a governance perspective). It could be a sign of a weak head that allows the staff to do whatever they want.

The HT could be very sporty, so the PE teacher is extremely content and the music lead is depressed because they can never seem to get the Head's attention.

The HT could be very keen on headline figures, so marginalises soft-skill subjects in favour of core subjects - that could reflect in very good SATS results but disatissfied parents who want their child to have a wide range of extra-curricular activities.

These are all extremes, but I think the point I'm making is that all data will be contextual and no data in itself is 'good' data - you have to be able to gather the data from a range of perspectives and triangulate it.

For instance, a school claims to be 'very inclusive'. Fair enough. Where are the children with SEN on OFSTED day? Are they at the school, or have they got the day off? Where are they on the stage during a production? Have they been given a role or are they 'sheep no. 475'? If they are 'sheep no. 475' is that because that's what suits them best, or is it because nobody considered that they may like to be Joseph? Or is it because they could misbehave and spoil things for the 'normal' children?

Bright, I'm exploring the role working on the hypothetical basis that the head has decided to do a questionnaire and asking if a governor could influence the format of it. I just gave an example of a recent questionnaire that was helpful.

I think we all moved on from the music thing a while upthread.....

Lougle - very helpful first four paragraghs - thanks. It is sooooo different from being a lawyer or management consultant or a service provider but, as you say, that's the first step towards greater awareness. Doing management consultancy and having to pass over drafting errors felt really weird at first but I got used to it. Mind you though, you never get the knowledge that a practitioner has (as you will know from your nursing background).

Last paragraph - how would you know if Mary has autism and Joseph has severe dyspraxia unless you have specific info about specific children? It's back to the odd confidentiality thing again....

I have read the full thread today and followed it since it was started. Maybe the conversation "moved on", but it is still part if this discussion; you are discussing the role a governor has within a school and that includes the influence you may be able to have on certain issues.

You have made some suggestions about questions but I would still query how and why is it "helpful"? The governors asked us to create a staff wellbeing questionnaire recently - which we did, shared with staff and most complained that having spend time completing the questionnaire had a negative impact on their wellbeing. From the few that replied the data was analysed and the bottom line outcome was ... staff love working with children, staff hate unnecessary admin and paperwork dictated by LA & government. So what changed after the questionnaires ... nothing!

The last paragraph.... well you're right, of course, but I suppose my point was about making sure that what you see ties in with what you hear/are told.

Jewel, Okey doke, I don't care whether people have questionnaires or not really.

Lougle, that's helpful, does what you see match what you're told...

sorry, another question. Can/do Governors get involved in fundraising? I've got a good sense of how to put applications together which is not a skill all teachers have.

They can do, but most schools have a Parent Teacher Association (PTA) which would normally be the fundraising arm of the school - school fetes, barbecues, Christmas Fayres, etc.

There's no reason (I think) why you couldn't be involved with both, though, at all. The key for a Governor would be to always be thinking strategically - so making sure that the grant application is tied into a strategic aim of the Governing Body. An example might be:

OFSTED are keen on the outdoor learning environment for children (especially in Foundation Stage). A funding application could be made to enable the construction of an Outdoor Classroom. This would be part of an overall strategic aim of the Governing Body to enhance outdoor provision within the curriculum.

I forgot to add that, of course, the strategic aims must be agreed with the HT - there's no point in applying for funding for an outdoor teaching space if the HT doesn't feel that they have the staff or expertise to man it, and there's no room in the budget to change that. That's why it's vital that everything is tied together to form a cohesive plan.

"I forgot to add that, of course, the strategic aims must be agreed with the HT - there's no point in applying for funding for an outdoor teaching space if the HT doesn't feel that they have the staff or expertise to man it, and there's no room in the budget to change that. That's why it's vital that everything is tied together to form a cohesive plan."

I've seen that at my own children's school. There was a period of weak leadership which created a bit of a void. The PTA stepped in and got really passionate about a project that was not sustainable. It was an absolute nightmare for the new head.

Re PTAs and fundraising, I'm guessing that I'm likely to be placed in a school where there's not much financial support (I'm thinking that schools with a lack of governors are probably schools with a lack of PTA funds - could be wrong of course).

Anyway, update, I put the application in and the SGOSS people passed it to my LEA who are apparently short of governors so I'm quite likely to be offered something. I'm so glad I'm not doing this in my own kids' schools or even in my own town because this "different role" thing will take some getting used to.

In terms of my own development it will be useful to figure out how schools work and to get training on that, including the financial side, as that's a bit of a weakness at present.

Well done Hopefully your LA will be one that offers lots of training. Don't feel like you should know everything about everything from the beginning - there's lots to learn and it's a layering process. Also don't be afraid to ask really basic questions - acronyms should only be used if everyone understands them and should be written in full the first time they're used in any document anyway. If they're not, it's not your fault!