What do you think of governors - are they helpful for teachers?

[Sleepymorningcuddles]

I'm thinking of becoming a governor- but not at my kids' own schools.

I believe the best teachers are happy teachers and that everyone can do a crap job if the circumstances are bad.

So....what are your governors like? Do they affect your professional lives, for good or for ill?

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There was a complaints procedure. Not that clear and it took far to be invoked. Again it would out me to explain why but I will say that my one experience of the process, also leads me to concern re. the power of chair of governors.

I didn't know that re. governor's responsibility re. Trips. I am interested in that issue now you have flagged it up. Is there anywhere I can find evidence for that? In the case of what happened to my son, the head made a very stupid and fundamental mistake which would contradict the risk assessment, I am sure.

Callooh if it hadn't been for my perseverance they would have believed the head. They weren't proactive but came good in the end. If you only get a fifth of the story then I guess it is reasonable to believe. I worry about what else is being hidden. I get a sense that the chair of governors is also a kind of gate keeper for some of the information which gets disseminated at meetings.

sorry I keep asking you questions lougle - it's just that you answers are really helpful!

"Parent governors do know stuff that other parents wouldn't know."
Could you give me someexamples? I had a look at the Governors Handbook and saw a reference to the Raise database that is rather more detailed than the public databases. But are there other things too?

But as to never discussing GB matters with parents - surely you just mean a subset of matters? If there is a debate as to how to fit in a bulge class or use a temporary building, surely your job is to be sharing the GB thoughts with parents as the process develops so there can be good input from everyone.
I appreciate that if a member of staff is absent through illness you wouldn't discuss that because it's not your story to tell.

"If there is a debate as to how to fit in a bulge class or use a temporary building, surely your job is to be sharing the GB thoughts with parents as the process develops so there can be good input from everyone." - no your role as a governor is not to canvas parental opinion. If parental opinion is required the school will consult with them. doing it as an individual governor smacks of gossiping in the playground.

Hmm, you see this is where I find the model odd.

A ballot goes out, you fill in your name, no-one else bothers, suddenly you're not just a parent, you're a parent governor. Suddenly your opinion on the bulge class not only matters but you must keep it from the other, lesser, parents.

That's not right. Otherwise the minutes of the governors' meetings would be secret too.
Just saying how it feels to me. Odd. Lougle and others are obviously doing a great job and the example about how the head could not assess himself after messing up on the school trip is a good one. But the idea that the governor would keep mum about such matters as a bulge class is just creating secrecy where none is required, and that sends us back to the earlier comments on this thread about how being a governor could tie in with a random desire to feel important.
After all, withholding information is an easy way to feel important if other things in your life don't make you feel important. And (lawyer bit here) secrecy is often used because people don't understand confidentiality. Confidentiality is not secrecy. Confidentiality is all about whose story something is to tell.
And the fact that governors are concerned about a bulge class is a story that should be told as there is no-one with a legitimate interest in keeping it secret.

Sleepy - Being a Governor varies slightly from school to school. The main thing is ‘time and commitment’. You should think of the Governor meetings as meetings that you must attend and arrange your social/work life around them. You should attend the training sessions that your Local Authority provides.

School Governors are the biggest volunteer organisation in the UK. We estimate that it takes up about 35hrs per year although, of course, it depends on how involved you want to be.

Governors deal with Budgets, Policies, Targets and things which are 'a step away' from the 'day to day' running of the school.
Any question like 'My child doesn't ... isn't ... can't ...' is not for a Governors meeting.

School Governors do not run the school; they are there to take an overview and see that it delivers.

In all types of schools, governing bodies should have a strong focus on three core strategic functions:
a. Ensuring clarity of vision, ethos and strategic direction;
b. Holding the Headteacher to account for the educational performance of the school and its pupils; and
c. Overseeing the financial performance of the school and making sure its money is well spent.

Sometimes one can get involved with sacking, redundancies and discipline matters.

Some useful sites: UK Governors Forum and Governor Line and Being a School Governor and Governors for Schools

I enjoy it and I've learnt a lot. I like being involved with the school and making a contribution - watching and learning how others deal with and solve problems. I have gained in self confidence and speaking up in meetings.

I’m sure you can Google ‘being a school governor’ yourself but:-

The Role of a School Governor

1 To Provide a Strategic View
2 To Act as a “Critical Friend”
3 To Ensure Accountability

Good Luck

One of the parent governors at my DCs school does observations etc and is fond of telling parents which teachers are doing well and which ones aren't, who might have their roles reduced etc. They also operate as a parent helper and tell people which children have had concerns raised etc. It is quite off-putting, and makes me very wary of the school as a whole tbh.

I never really know what to do about it.

Mum was a head and worked well with her governors but said you always had to be clear about what their job actually was.

"I never really know what to do about it. "

I'm not surprised. I've read the governors' handbook and there's sod all about this crucial stuff in it. A lot about holding other people to account and very little of the useful stuff I've learned on this thread.

everyone assumes you're just in it for your own child.

It takes experience and training to understand the doctrine of confidentiality. A lot of it is about not restricting your right to speak and identifying who has a right to speak. Hah! listen to me! now I sound like the teacher upthread who were saying that you have to be a teacher to be a governor!

The parent governor thing is weird because the authority relationships are going to flip from day to day aren't they? PG's child is bullying - teacher calls her in. Next day, PG is back in her capacity as SEN gov to hold teachers to account. Hmm, now that's not going to work is it?

AlmaMartyr - If what you say is correct that is absolutely appalling.

1. The obvious betrayal of confidential information (discussed earlier in this thread) is disgraceful. I would a) inform the County Education Dept and ask their advice and b) Complain to the Chair of Governors.

1. does observations - This phrase implies the governor is making a judgement. This is not a governor’s job.

1. and tell people which children have had concerns raised - Again, this is disgraceful. I would complain and I urge you to complain.

Sleepy - PG is back in her capacity as SEN gov to hold teachers to account. Governors do not hold teachers to account. They hold the school to account.

Any conflict of interest should be reported by the teacher to the Head and by the Governor to the Chair of Govs so that the matter is dealt with correctly.

Sleepy -

Think of it like being a non-executive board member. They do not run the company; they are there to take an overview and see that it delivers. You wouldn't get a non-exec director turning up at a board meeting and reporting that the Post Room wasn't happy and that there'd been complaints about the canteen.

The Head of Governor Services in my county told me that he frequently has to sort out governing bodies and finds that often three quarters of the meeting is devoted to "parking outside the school" and "design of the new sweatshirt" - matters which may interest governors, particularly parent governors, but are not what they are supposed to be discussing.

An example of something a parent governor can't share:

Say the school has two options. One will be popular with parents but may not being best results. The other will be deeply unpopular with some parents but may bring better results (I'm making this up, so don't press me for specifics!).

As a parent governor, I may have my ear bent by parents at the school gate (incidentally, a parent governor is a representative of the parent body, not a representative for the parent body -in other words they are not there to be the voice of parents). I may agree with their views wholeheartedly. I may argue that case strongly at the GB meeting. However the decision taken is taken corporately, as a whole governing body. Once the decision is made, the details of who voted which way should not be disclosed and I must abide by the decision. So, I can't go to the school gate and say I disagree with what we are doing.

Most governing body minutes are published but they are only approved for accuracy at the GB meeting following their production. That means, in practice, they will be around 3 months out of date.

Conflict of interest is easy to dodge. For example, you would never interview staff who teach your child. You wouldn't be safeguarding governor if your day job was as a practicing social worker in the same county. You always declare pecuniary interest.

Governors hold the school to account, not individual teachers. If a parent governor had an issue to raise with something they'd seen at school, they'd raise it with the HT if it was a parent issue, or the chair of governors if it was a governance issue.

"Suddenly your opinion on the bulge class not only matters but you must keep it from the other, lesser, parents."

Your opinion matters, not as a parent with the interests of your child in mind, but as a governor with the best interest of the school as a whole in mind. Your vote will count. But remember that may be a vote worth 1/15 th of the decision. You couldn't possibly swing it.

I get you lougle and it's clear that you manage to keep the two aspects separate.
But I think that many (most?) people don't , and that it suits the govt on some level not to acknowledge this.

Can I ask, how long does a governor stay in their role? Parent Governor or the other Governors.

It can be a problem for any governor, but parent governors have the added complexity of having a child at the school and perhaps knowing other parents, etc. The biggest two things to get your head around are corporate decision making and that once you're a governor, its irrelevant that you are a parent governor. If you can do that, then you can be effective.

Some governors with a professional background that includes intense probing and inquiry (ie. lawyer, police officer, etc) can find it hard that they can only ask questions and they can't demand masses of detailed evidence. They can find it hard that data comes in terms of trends rather than concrete numbers, etc.

Some governors with an accountancy background can find it hard that they have to consider the 'fluffy stuff' when all they're interested in is balancing the books.

Some governors with a management background can find that they're irritated with the way targets are set and managed - they're used to timelines and set sign-off points, whereas school targets tend to be fluid and adapted over time.

There are difficulties in every area. We just have to make the best of each person's skill to ensure corporate effectiveness - not everyone has to know everything to the same level for the governing body to be effective as a whole.

I think the government has acknowledged the difficulties by changing the constitution of governance to focus on skills based appointments rather than 'bums on seats'.

funnyface31 the initial term is 4 years. After 4 years, parent or staff governors must have their post advertised again, and if they fail to be elected their term finishes. Now, however, they could be invited to stay on as a co-opted governor (unless, in the case of a member of staff, their continuance would take the staff proportion to over 1/3 of the GB) or an associate governor.

LA governors can continue after 4 years for another term, if the LA would like them to continue, the GB would like them to continue and the governor is happy to serve another (4 year) term.

Co-opted governors can serve for as long as they and the GB agree it is beneficial, with each term again being 4 years.

Thanks lounge. I thought it was 4 years too, not really sure why some of our governors are still around 8 years later.

"Some governors with a professional background that includes intense probing and inquiry (ie. lawyer, police officer, etc) can find it hard that they can only ask questions and they can't demand masses of detailed evidence. They can find it hard that data comes in terms of trends rather than concrete numbers, etc."

Oh my god that will be me lougle! I'm used to asking and being told the answers!

It is helpful having this thread. Though it has convinced me that in many schools the system is thoroughly damaged.

Do you mind me asking your background lougle? We used to know each other on the SN board long long ago (well, it feels long ago).

No it won't be you -you're already trying to understand the scope of the role.

My background...nursing, before having children. Then voluntary roles (preschool committee, children's centre partnership board, parent governor at DD1's school, LA governor at another school, select committee for children & young people, admissions appeals panel).

So no real background of any worth in itself. Just a bit of experience in governance.

ah, that's a nice thing to say, thank you.

You've obviously found your forte. Maybe you should offer to write a guide to being a gov. and mumsnet could publish it? Seriously, it might stop some of the clearly corrupt practices that have been described upthread if there was something people could refer to. "Do not have a role in school" and "not operational" do not convey the nuances at all really.

That's very kind, but I think there are plenty of guides out there, it's just that people think they don't apply to them!

"Not Operational" is a hard one because, let's face it, 'operational' is such a business-speak term. Basically, if you are trying to influence what time something happens, or what happens on a day to day basis, you've crossed the line.

In essence, we should be saying 'I don't care what you do, or how you do it (within the constraints of law/procedure) but by X date I want this.' e.g. "By March 2016, raise the attainment of boys in mathematics by 3%." That's a strategic goal. The HT can choose to implement focused teaching groups for the weakest mathematicians to raise the overall attainment, or offer after school maths club, or introduce a new method of teaching a certain strand of maths which is pulling grades down, or recruit a teacher who has a specialist maths teaching qualification to replace a leaving teacher, etc., but the judgement of success will be made on whether the overall attainment of boys in mathematics has gone up by 3%.

If you were saying 'I really think you need to think about changing what you do in maths and so I want you to introduce Singapore Maths, reduce the afternoon playtime by 10 minutes on a Thursday and send X teacher on a course to improve her mathematics' then you have gone waaay into operational matters.

"Do not have a role in school" isn't necessarily true - I can volunteer my time in school with my link class (and do), but I'm not there to sit with a clipboard taking notes on teaching quality! It's more about being clear on why you are there and making sure that everyone around you is clear on why you are there. In other words, not pretending to be helping with reading, but secretly taking notes on Little Johnny's impact on classroom behaviour.

If I go for it lougle, could I (or the gov. Body) exercise any control over what kind of data is gathered, or is that just up to the head?