What do you think of governors - are they helpful for teachers?

[Sleepymorningcuddles]

I'm thinking of becoming a governor- but not at my kids' own schools.

I believe the best teachers are happy teachers and that everyone can do a crap job if the circumstances are bad.

So....what are your governors like? Do they affect your professional lives, for good or for ill?

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ok. I do happen to have a particular passion about arts education as part of SEAL stuff. Is it ok to "have an axe to grind" there or is that too operational?

It's not ok to have an axe to grind if you are a governor. Do not go in with your own agenda. Governors are there to help and serve the school, not to grind personal axes.

Isn't wanting better education an axe though?mi mean no one is passionate about checking budgets and sacking people.....

But you could ask to be attached to the arts curriculum areas?

Evil, I'm guessing your dad wouldn't like this "make schools your business" campaign......

www.sgoss.org.uk

Hi Maybe, yes, I think that would be the only appropriate sector (maybe MFL too as it faces very similar issues to music).

Serious question, when is a desire to improve things an axe to grind?

To add my own contribution (ex primary SLT) I think that the power of the governing body is overstated when it comes to either the day-to-day running of the school or the strategic direction of the school. As a class teacher they barely had an impact on what I was doing in the classroom - almost all power lies in the hands of the HT. As an SLT member they mostly just read, discussed and approved what we were doing. I suspect that their 'critical friend' role could be fulfilled more effectively by LA or what were school improvement partners. However, they are an important 'check and balance' on the power of the HT and I have seen that role quite literally go to the head of one or two individuals....

", they are an important 'check and balance' on the power of the HT and I have seen that role quite literally go to the head of one or two individuals...."

:) :)

Just to be clear, you would have general governing body responsibilities but might ask to be the 'link governor' for music. However, I do have to warn you that there will be some very long meetings mostly comprised of finance, reporting and policy ratification....

Oh I would if I could!!!

" However, I do have to warn you that there will be some very long meetings mostly comprised of finance, reporting and policy ratification...."

Hmm, sounds dull ........

You can, you're on mumsnet.
Just change "own daughter" to "own goat".

Is it a bit painful when folk invest too much of themselves in the role?

What are the meetings like? Is it like PTA meetings where most people are desperate for it to end?

I loathe governors.

Absolute waste of time and space.

How dare they go on learning walks making judgements and critiquing guided reading, phonics and teaching.....

Our governors are comprised of

A fireman (chair)
A beauty specialist
An IT consultant
A worker at KFC
A farmer
A librarian

These are all fine jobs, but not specialised in teaching or schools. It makes me cross they have so much power......

I am a drama teacher. I would not welcome a governor with an axe to grind about arts education and SMSC/PSHE/SEAL because I am not interested in your personal agenda. I might be interested in your view AFTER you have spent some time in my dept but I would absolutely resent someone coming in and telling me what I should/should not be doing. What if your view on things differed from mine?

calzone that's a bit of a meaty subject.

Firstly, you are barred from being a governor (other than a staff governor) if you work at a school for more than 500 hours per year.

Secondly, there should never be a situation where a Governor (even with teaching experience and knowledge) is going on learning walks "making judgements and critiquing guided reading, phonics and teaching". That is an operational matter and even if they have knowledge they shouldn't be using it there!

What learning walks can be used for is for the Head Teacher/ SLT teacher who takes them around, to point out the key components of the guided reading they see, or to chat through the elements of teaching and how they come together to form a package of education.

When we talk about teacher performance, we are only ever given anonymised data and proportional analysis (e.g. 93% of lessons observed were good or better, up 8% from the same period last year). Same with pupil progress. In fact the one time we were accidentally given data with pupil names on it, within 10 seconds of it being passed around, one of us said 'err, should we have the pupil names on this?' and the whole lot was back in the Headteacher's hands.

As for power, we only have power within the constitution. There really isn't much we can do. We can't tell the HT how to run the school.

With the new constitutional framework schools can recruit governors based on skillset, too.

I agree Lougle......but it is what ours do.

Horrible.

.....or how about the parent helper who is a gov who comes in and offers 'feedback' to the y3 teacher about her teaching ?

Who offers her opinion......
About phonics
Classroom displays
Ability of children within the class

Ok genuine question again:

Given this quote below, is the governing body not going to end up demanding more data.......when excessive data gathering is precisely what teachers complain about....

"When we talk about teacher performance, we are only ever given anonymised data and proportional analysis (e.g. 93% of lessons observed were good or better, up 8% from the same period last year). Same with pupil progress. In fact the one time we were accidentally given data with pupil names on it, within 10 seconds of it being passed around, one of us said 'err, should we have the pupil names on this?' and the whole lot was back in the Headteacher's hands."

It's all quite confusing, the roles seem to be different in different schools....

Eviltwins, I would probably be in a primary. There is evidence that no music at all happens in a third of primaries and that instructors have no confidence in their ability to teach the subject in another third.

Is that a governor issue where you need to challenge the head to improve things?

You would need to take the time to find out why. You simply cannot go in with your own set of priorities. For example, my school has no music dept. This is a shame, but is due to a set of circumstances which were unavoidable and unforseeable. I would not be happy with a new governor coming in with her own agenda about this.

If you really want to be a governor, then you need to go in completely open minded and see what the school needs, not decide your priorities first.

callooh - that is not true. We can request what we like.

so for example under the new NT the school is developing its own assessment criteria.
As a governing body we requested time in the meetings for the new criteria to be explained, and we requested a sample set of books to see it in action.

Why? Well, because when ofsted come round we have to be able to justify the scheme being used and understand how it helps the school achieve its goals of x % children achieving y levels progress.

Calzone - that sounds awful.

We do learning walks. What purpose do they have?
well, here are a couple of examples

• there is a new whole school action plan to use y scheme across the school for spelling. I did a walk focusing on literacy. One thing I was looking for was if there was evidence that that new scheme was being used. Now the HT can tell me it is being used and is working, but I need to know that I am not being soft soaped by her. There was lots of evidence for it in action and lots of positive comments from kids. We were able to thank teachers and send some lovely positive feedback to the literacy co-ordinator who has spent a lots of time implementing it.

The choice of scheme or even if it is the best scheme is not my business, what I need to know is that the plan - part of the school development plan to work on spelling - is being put into action. It is them up to the HT and literacy co-ordinator to evaluate the scheme and let us know if it has been effective and if not, what the new plan is.

• the SEN governor did a school walk and noticed that the disabled loo was being used for storage. A quiet comment and it was sorted.

• we did a walk as a group with a focus on environment. We realised some of the playground stuff was looking old, and there was a dangerous hole near the gate. We liaised with HT and PTA and have started the process of raising some money for new playground equipment and got the hole fixed. One of the governors is spending some time researching grants for the playground.

I think you need to be honest with yourself about what use you can be to the school. I've never seen a governor observe a lesson - I have seen prospective governors wander around with the head a couple of times but once they are on the board they don't seem to be in school during operational hours. This is fine by me, they are professionals. They have jobs. They aren't a substitute ofsted team. They are not trained in teaching and learning.

I am comfortable with the SLT giving them the data and info they need to help run the school as best as possible, and them having a range of experience and expertise that we don't have on the staff. For example, two of our govs are lawyers. That's pretty handy. There are business owners who have great strategic planning skills. An accountant who is useful for the financial skills... etc.

What is it that you will be able to bring to the table? If you have specific knowledge and skills and experience that can be of use, go for it - they'll probably bite your arm off. If it's just a general desire to help the school and stick your oar in regarding the arts, give it a miss and join the pta instead.

boss - governors are expected to visit the school and to walk the school. It is in the guidelines we have. (primary, don't know if it is different for secondary)