PR and the Palace; are the mists clearing?

[Whentherainsetin101]

For those of us interested in the PR aspects of how the institution of the monarchy presents itself to us, the unsuspecting public, and given that Charles Spencer’s book has prompted a re-examination of events which took place over twenty-nine years ago, I thought this might be a good time to examine what Andrew Lownie calls;

“that gap between the curated narrative and the reality”.

We now know lots of things that weren’t obvious thirty years ago, for example;

We know that BP sometimes issues statements that question the credibility of the “accuser” rather than addressing an accusation directly.

We know that the relationship between the press and the palace is largely self serving on both sides.

We know that the royal rota tow the line in exchange for access.

We know that certain tabloids favour certain royals eg Fergie and The Sun.

We know that BP leaks and briefs certain stories to deflect from other more damaging ones.

We know that BP uses “safe” public figures to broadcast their spin for them eg it used to be Nicolas Soames but now appears to be Rory Stewart.

We know that many things presented to us in one way are in reality very different, eg the late Queen Elizabeth’s marriage, AMW being “banished” to Sandringham.

Given all of the above, do you think the Palace are losing the PR battle, simply because people are now much more switched on about ‘spin’ and because they favour a much more authentic approach?

Even if there were no overt physical threat I think the risk of reputational damage alone would have warranted a briefing to the boss.

As for those who did know and did nothing - absolutely disgraceful.

John Lydon was effectively banned by the BBC for daring to allude to the matter in a 1978 interview

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/john-lydon-jimmy-savile-banned-from-bbc/

I'm also adding the highly culpable Esther Rantzen who judging by the fulsome praise recently heaped on her seems to have had her history similarly airbrushed.

She admitted she'd heard of the rumours as a junior reporter but even after later gaining considerable accolades as an investigative reporter and then a lauded founder of a charity for child victims failed to use her platform to bring Savile to any kind of justice or even questioning during his lifetime.

I've always wondered why.

But that was kinda my point - the reputational damage wasn’t at the forefront of anyone’s minds 30-40 years ago in the same way it is now.

Rich white famous or powerful men were just given so much leeway. It’s also why Saville, Epstein, Weinstein etc got away with so much for so long - they were careful to behave around those more powerful than they and everyone just turned a blind eye to the rest.

I want to know who has filled the Epstein void - who are the current men supplying the rich with exploited young women and men?

Definitely. I don’t think people realise how much the climate has changed.

I remember listening to John Peel recounting how he slept with 15 year old girls when he was young and hip and part of the rock music scene. He told this in a regretful way and said he was sorry for using these young girls and basically taking advantage of them.

For pps who like to misunderstand me - the point I’m making is that lots of men in positions of power just took this kind of activity for granted not so very long ago. I’m not excusing any of it - just pointing out that all kinds of people were at it and not just the horrible bogey men we know about.

I want to know who has filled the Epstein void - who are the current men supplying the rich with exploited young women and men?

I wonder that too. Someone will be.

But that was kinda my point - the reputational damage wasn’t at the forefront of anyone’s minds 30-40 years ago in the same way it is now.

I disagree.

E2 was so concerned at the royal image portrayed in a 1969 documentary she had it pulled (it's still available on Youtube for anyone interested)

Anyone with eyes could see JS was at very best a weird oddball who jarred entirely with conventional royal company yet C still chose to cosy up.

I could never understand how JS inserted himself so seamlessly into royals. It was so strange.

I know it's the benefit of hindsight but still. He was always a weirdo and they so embraced him.

I wonder if those who used to provide entertainment would be persuaded/coerced to do it.

I also wonder if using women to do it would be preferable - after all, only GM has (rightfully) seen the inside of a cell. Some powerful men will have a spotlight on them - women maybe not so much.

I’m not naive to think that it will all stop but I wish it would. It’ll just go deeper underground and if it does that, I fear the depravity will hit new lows.

Not just the royals - across the whole establishment - he had unprecedented access for a ‘TV host’ to Margaret Thatcher.

www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/dec/28/jimmy-savile-access-margaret-thatcher

I’m not sure if this is still available on iPlayer but The Reckoning is a really chilling watch.

Released in 2023, the series stars Steve Coogan as Jimmy Savile. It chronicles Savile's rise to fame through the British media, his extensive charity work, and the institutional failures that allowed his horrific decades-long history of sexual abuse to go unchecked

I’ve just checked, it’s on iPlayer, here is the link for anyone interested.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0g4tsbw

I watched that!
Steve coogan played him so well
It was chilling

Margaret Thatcher like the royals had no problems with someone being a paedophile or a nonce. She was told one of her MPs was a paedophile and didn't care.

Agreed. And all those talking as if rich men raping kids and sex trafficked teenagers being ignored is in the past, are not paying attention to how all the rich men around Epstein who were involved, have largely been unaffected.
Nothing has changed. Nothing.

I don’t think it was more acceptable. If you read my posts you will know that. But I’m not going to debate this with you.

To my mind, whether the person inserting themselves in to the RF is Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris, a Chinese spy, a Libyan arms dealer, Ghislaine Maxwell or Jeffrey Epstein… the issue is the same… and that’s the general lack of outside scrutiny over the actions of such a high-ranking, influential, wealthy, privileged family, And them not being accountable for their actions.

The police protection officers were there to physically protect their charges, and had no influence over whether someone was personally invited to the palace or not.

Lownie in certain interviews has talked about how some PPOs got a little too used to the royal watch and started wearing well cut blazers and tying their ties with Windsor knots.

And the RF’s heavy influence continues in the case of AMW when the highly misleading PR message that BP is transmitting to the public is;

‘the King has acted decisively and thrown AMW out and the Palace are doing everything they can to assist the police with their investigation’

when in actual fact the opposite is true. The King only decided to act when he heard protestors in the street shouting “what did you know and when?” but happily protected AMW up to that point. (And let’s not forget, AMW’s nefarious activities only came to light as a result of the Epstein trial and no doubt would still be continuing now if that hadn’t been the case.)

AMW is still travelling to the Middle East and the South of France via private jets and carrying on as usual

And Lownie reports that phone and flight logs have gone missing and he has been shown a legal letter that has been issued to former PPOs reminding them of their confidentiality agreements and the terms of their pensions, demonstrating that BP are therefore silencing anyone who may be willing to speak out.

(This happened with AMW originally actually, that any PPO or civil servant complaining about him were moved back in to uniform or sent off to a remote posting.)

Again, the PR message being sent out to the gullible British public is at odds with the reality of the situation.

Again, more outside scrutiny and accountability is required.

I wonder if Lownie has actually given any useful information he might have to the police yet.

A few months ago he was repeatedly saying in interviews that the police hadn't reached out to him for information; totally ignoring the fact that they might be rather busy, that Thames Valley and the Metropolitan Police had given contact details, and that there is a clear procedure on the National Crime Agency website for passing on information about organised crime.

Are you implying that Lownie is lying?

Lownie has said he has a big file made up of information that he couldn’t include in the book and no one involved with the investigation has contacted him about it, which seems very odd.

If my memory serves me correctly, he even gave a file to Gordon Brown I believe to submit on his behalf, You would think information from an ex PM would hold some weight?

Maybe some of it is highly confidential and Lownie doesn’t want to put it to the hands of the NCA without some guarantees of his sources being protected?

One would have thought that the police would be anxious to look at any incriminating material whether it’s accompanied by the right form or not!

Police usually gather information from all sorts of places, a lot of their tips come from other criminals fhs! They are not usually too fussy about whether the info has been submitted via the correct procedure, that’s ridiculous! It’s the veracity of the information that’s important. Why not look at it and then decide? Isn’t that the police’s job?

Disappointing to see posters still leaping to the defence of the royals over this issue. AMW needs prosecuting and the police need all the information they can get their hands on to achieve this.

A brilliant comment and very accurate.

To my mind, whether the person inserting themselves in to the RF is Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris, a Chinese spy, a Libyan arms dealer, Ghislaine Maxwell or Jeffrey Epstein… the issue is the same… and that’s the general lack of outside scrutiny over the actions of such a high-ranking, influential, wealthy, privileged family, And them not being accountable for their actions.

Agreed and the sleaze is embedded right down to the so-called minor royals many seem to be looking to to fill 'gaps' in the busywork.

It'd be interesting to see what's squirming should a microscope ever be turned on the Tindalls, Peter Phillips, Bea and Euge IMO.

Beatrice and Eugenie seemed to do a lot of travelling to the middle east.
And why were Catherine and William going to Jordan a lot?

Are you implying that Lownie is lying?

Absolutely not.

no one involved with the investigation has contacted him about it

Yes, that's what I said.

AMW needs prosecuting and the police need all the information they can get their hands on to achieve this.

I totally agree, and have been consistent in saying so. Hence I am wondering if they have received any relevant information.

I don't think it's unreasonable to wonder if someone who has repeatedly said he has information has given it to police.
Given that the last police update spoke of the large amount of supplied information that they were working through, I do think it is unreasonable to expect them to contact specific people to ask, when there are clear routes to give that information.

You do know information like protection officer logs has gone missing?

I doubt Lownie would announce this unequivocally in multiple televised interviews unless he was telling the absolute truth!

It’s pretty obvious to me that the investigation is being deliberately stalled from the top down.

Afaik there isn’t anything nefarious about W+C going to Jordan - Catherine lived there as a child, William did a standard official tour eight years ago, they went on holiday visiting friends once and then went to their friend’s wedding?

Seems less controversial than if they had no links to Jordan or the Jordanian RF but turned up randomly anyway, as H+M did earlier this year. Maybe they hoped to make some useful connections but sadly they were not invited to their host’s audience with King Abdullah and Prince Hussein.