AMW continuing his effort to end the monarchy part 4

[simpsonthecat]

New thread. This is not ending

They've got to make it look as if they're "doing something", but AMW's never going to enter a witness box, so I guess its main use is the useful reminder of just how complicit much of the RF are

I agree, Puzzled.

There's a lot the police seem to be 'waiting' for and there's a lot about early stages, getting the process right and so on which is of course as it should be but while the reports of wider investigations are encouraging I do wonder if it's more of a fobbing off exercise for now.

As you say though it's a timely reminder of the rest of the family's involvement and alleged cover-up.

I hope Republic continue asking C3 and W what they knew every time they show their faces.

The podcast lays the blame at quite a few government departments & not just the Queen

And rightly so, @Recklessismymiddlename, but it bears saying that this is the usual way of doing things - as in spread the blame so that in the end nobody has to take responsibility

I also picked up on another thread that Lownie's new book has just come out, which could well explain Thames Valley Police thinking "guess we'd better say something"

I’m waiting for the usual lessons will be learned that will be spewed out in due course @Puzzledandpissedoff

Oh it'll come ... absolutely inevitable

The podcast lays the blame at quite a few government departments & not just the Queen. And why wasn’t he answerable.

What civil servant is going to risk their career and pension to complain about him? And Andrew Lownie says there were complaints but they were ignored by the Palace.

Yes apparently there were some quite unacceptable threats made to civil servants who complained or questioned this. People threatened with their careers being destroyed, and for no purpose. There needs to be far, far stronger scrutiny of the whole Palace operation really, and more willingness to tell them no, and public accountability.

I don’t disagree. But who oversaw those complaints? I expect there will at some point, be some low level scapegoat and AMW will escape prosecution. I hope this doesn’t go away.

... apparently there were some quite unacceptable threats made to civil servants who complained or questioned this. People threatened with their careers being destroyed, and for no purpose

I'd have been more surpised if this hadn't happened, @Desperatelyseekinglazysusan

Admittedly as a republican I was always going to feel this way, but I simply don't get what it is about this family/institution which causes people to switch off normal thought and standards
Is a lackey's job, gong or an invite to a garden party really worth that much?

But who oversaw those complaints?
Probably Liz's private secretary. Who no doubt is now ennobled and enriched.

I’ve been brought up by republican parents and grandparents and strangely am a constitutional parliamentarian (whatever that means), but this stuff coming out, is making me think, that my parents & long gone grandparents, were right all along, and the whole lot should go. But I’ve said before, I think they will be gone in my lifetime. I’m in my 60’s.

I think they will be gone in my lifetime. I’m in my 60’s.

I don't think they will be gone in my lifetime (older than you) or my DC's lifetime. Maybe not even GC's lifetime! No political party backs dismantling the Monarchy, too much of a political hot potato, they could lose elections on that one issue.
Support for the Monarchy has fallen to the lowest ever, 51%. It needs to be less than that for change to happen
It is then said that if it fell less than that it would take a decade for political pressure to actually force a referendum
If it was a 'yes', the Constitution would then need to be rewritten. Then with Scotland, NI and Wales possibly wanting to become independent, that would take 5-10 years to iron out.

The Monarchy is not going anywhere. I am for change, big change. A complete overhaul. That's all I can hope for in mine or my DCs lifetimes.

I’m not so sure. I think it a lot depends on what comes out about AMW but then you are probably more right than me. A political hot potato indeed.

Support for the Monarchy has fallen to the lowest ever, 51%

So I see, @simpsonthecat, and I suppose this was inevitable with so little having gone right since QE2 died

Maybe it'll improve when W&K's turn comes or maybe it won't, but I still think it's worth remembering that the whole thing's built on an image which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with reality

I agree. Which is why it is so bizarre that people adore them. I have never been able to understand it

It is just image manipulation, Media sucking up to them, clever PR, and none of it is based in reality. Which is why when something does go wrong like AMW some like me are not the slightest bit surprised, and other people are shocked to the core depending on what you believe

Iinteresting points above .

I’ve always thought they’ll throw Elizabeth under the bus as much as they can. That’s her main value to them now - scapegoat ( I’m not denying she’s culpable but she’s not alone) The Windsors will continue to frantically try to distance themselves from Andrew.

I hope Republic persist with the 2 questions :
What did you know Charles and William ?
When did you know it ?

Abuse and corruption and covered up due to deference . Why would anyone express support for this ? What sort of person looks at the Windsors and their greed and protection of Andrew and thinks ‘ this is fine / better than a salaried elected president’ ??

Ive read that previous protection officers have been ‘reminded’ of their pensions if they were thinking of speaking out ( why though? No nda can be used when law breaking is concerned) . I learnt above of how Civil Servants who complained about Andrew were treated similarly.
Anyone else see a link with this and the disgraceful palace statement calling Virginia Guiffre a liar ?
Using weight of the institution to stifle whistle blowers .

Has anyone managed to get their hands on the paperback of Entitled?

Mine arrived yesterday, I’ve yet to start it.

The focus will now begin to switch to the Wales children - Charlotte was on the front cover of Hello Magazine last month; probably George will be on the front cover when he turns 13 in July. When his parents make the announcement about where he is going to go for secondary school that will takeover the media headlines for days. The older members Anne, Edward and Sophie will gradually become more irrelevant. By the time George turns 21 AMW will be completely forgotten. It's almost inevitable.

Doesn't it depend on where the police investigation is and whether he and his ex keeps their heads down.

I don't think and his behavior is going to be forgotten for a very long time, royal historians have said it is the biggest threat to the monarchy

Given that Edward and Wallis are still discussed I cannot see AMW being forgotten any time soon .

Isn't George already marked to go to Eton? I read that Katherine didn't want that but she's been overruled by William

The children will be shilled out because they think that will distract from all the revelations .
It won’t .

Lol, yes, I think you're right there! I hadn't thought of that!
And they were of the newspaper era and no internet etc so there is far more that we know now about the Yorks

On so many royal threads you continue to wilfully misunderstand the nature of trusts and how tax works in relation to the Duchies.

Creating a trust does not amount to “creating a business shell”. Trusts are generally used to hold private rather than business assets but private assets can include company shares, etc. The Duchies are not “capitalist corporations” as you put it. No individuals or Trusts ever pay Corporation Tax (as they are NOT corporations) so William and Charles are treated no differently here.

Not all trusts pay Inheritance Tax. The rules are complex (particularly for trusts set up pre 2006) and even those trusts that are liable to the ten year charge are entitled to Agricultural Property Relief, private residence relief and any other reliefs for qualifying assets in the same way as any individual.

The Duchies are more akin to Life Interest Trusts than Discretionary Trusts as the income of the trusts benefits a single individual, i.e. the heir or the Crown. Life Interest Trusts are not usually subject to income tax – the beneficiary who is entitled to receive the income is taxable instead. In the case of the Duchies, this would be William or Charles. This is completely normal.

Accordingly, William and Charles both pay income tax on their income from the Duchies after deductions for expenses for official purposes. Effectively they pay tax on income used for private purposes. Anyone, employed or self-employed is entitled to a deduction for expenses incurred in carrying out their job before paying tax. Once again, the royals are not treated any differently.

They are also liable to Capital Gains Tax in respect of the disposal of private assets and in respect of gains included in the private proportion of the Privy Purse.

Duchy accounts are available to the public (as are those of the Crown Estate) – they are not kept private so I have no idea what you are alluding to here. Only private assets not in the Duchies are kept private.

Both William and Charles are afforded the same level of privacy in tax matters as everyone else. Do you want them treated differently? Maybe you wish all individuals would open their tax affairs to the public or maybe just the wealthy ones? Should we all receive the same scrutiny?

The Royal’s tax affairs are all laid out very clearly in the Memorandum of Understanding on Royal Taxation already linked on this thread and yet you continue to spout nonsense – clearly your reading comprehension is seriously lacking. You are distorting facts to suit your own agenda.

It is quite simple. The long winded explanations , similar to Duchy lack of transparency ( again not my opinion - MPs are asking ) only serve to disguise the basic facts :

No one else in the UK is above tax law . William and Charles are .
They are not paying capital gains tax or corporation tax on Duchy income .
Whatever income tax they offer is AFTER they have decided what is tax deductible and what isn’t

There is no proper oversight.William has closed the books - Charles offered some transparency.

I have recently read that the Duchy of Cornwall is using legal loopholes to avoid property taxes .
This is all setting aside the outrageous fact that William and Charles are taking millions and millions from the NHS and charities . William is charging us 1.5 million a year for a empty prison ! Nothing to stop him returning that money .

This is not my opinion - read Norman Baker ‘Royal mint , National debt’

The Windsors are using medieval claims to wring billions out of a 21st century industrial complex .
It needs to be stopped
Simply roll the Duchies into the crown estate

Btw- I did not say a trust has to be a business shell ? It was one example

And why are you referring to a memorandum of understanding ? That letter is of zero legal or legislative value . It’s nothing but a puff piece resulting from public outstage after Elizabeth wanted the people to pay for repairs to Windsor .
If William decides he’s not paying a penny more in tax there is not a thing we could do about it .
Disgraceful