How come William chose to ignore the massive elephant in the room and no one challenged him on it?

[Roadtripwithpretzels]

Prince William spoke about the very important subject of mh yesterday on Radio One and while it’s a subject that should be highlighted, does no one else think that his credibility on this issue has now been damaged by the AMW case?

He may not have been personally responsible for the alleged cover up, and he may well loathe Uncle Andrew, but he is still a central player in the institution that helped to pay off and cover up the voices of AMW’s alleged victims? Virginia Giuffre took her own life fhs! He can’t just ignore it!

To me this interview came across as incredibly unintelligent and insensitive in current circumstances. And proof that William himself just doesn’t “get it”.

Why on earth did he not say that in the light of current circumstances and out of respect for victims; the interview couldn’t go ahead?

Or why did his new ex crisis manager PR person not advise this?

And why was he allowed to sit there by the BBC and not address this?

And what about the mh of the Palace staff who have suffered because of AMW’s boorish and inappropriate behaviour for years? The nanny who allegedly left because of AMW being inappropriate and the policeman whose arm was hurt by AMW’s speeding at Windsor? The maids who were screamed at? What about the mental health of the police protection offices who quite recently were, according to Lownie, reminded about their NDAs and the safety of their pensions if they spoke out?

I don’t think it’s good enough any longer for a senior member of the RF to sit there and say yet again in a rather generic way “we all need to talk about our mental health” while ignoring what their own institution has covered up for years and is still allegedly trying to suppress?

And the BBC should hold some accountability about this too!

Obviously not but my point was, the Queen was a human being with her own autonomy besides being a HOS. So she had a right to decide what she thought she was capable of as opposed to your patronising view of” shut her away poor love, she’s old and infirm”. Hopefully if you are ever in that situation you will be treated more sensitively that you seem capable of treating others

eta sorry to continue derail. I think I’ve made my point now as have others

OP William is chooosng to ignore the horrific information in the Epstein files for one reason only . Self interest and self preservation

He will have known about it a lot sooner than the rest of us . He could even have been one of those chipping in to the pay off - we dont seem to be allowed to know who paid , do we?

William has only one characteristic- ‘irritated silence’ as a journalist put it.

There is nothing preventing him from speaking out . Yet he maintains his silence hoping it willl blow over .

Well said.

your patronising view of” shut her away poor love, she’s old and infirm

Where did I say shut her away? The whole Platinum Jubilee thing was wrong on so many levels. More of The Firm. It was more dishonesty " mobility problems" which turned out to be something else entirely.

Please stop calling me names because I worded a post in a clumsy manner. Thanks.

Apologies for derailing thread.

You said it was “embarrassing”. Twice. At least.

Backtracking @bafta16
your post was not clumsy. You made your feelings clear that old people and disabled people are embarrassing.

When/where was that?
I remember one incident where she joked about cutting a cake with a sword (it was quite an unwieldy thing) but she didn't seem confused.
Maybe you're thinking of some other occasion?
You certainly couldn't assess someone's capacity based on that, if that's what you mean.
Capacity is a much more complicated issue than many people realise and is situation specific.

? Which cake cutting incident was that?

I know it's complicated. I said she seemed confused, and I wondered about her capacity because of her confusion.

I can’t remember what event it was exactly. Probably around her platinum jubilee? Someone was introduced to her, a man I think, and she didn't seem to know who or what they were. Then she said something to him that didn't make sense and he and the people around seemed puzzled at what she'd said. Then she cut the cake I think? Or she may have done that first?

Whenever it was, she seemed an extremely vulnerable old lady.

She may well have had capacity, and may well have been determined to do this meeting and cake cutting.

Either way, having a monarchy where 96 year old ladies with extreme frailties feel the need to do this kind of public appearance is not a system I support.

FWIW my mum didn't have capacity in the months before she died but when people spoke to her briefly she came across as sensible. So equally the queen could have had a moment or a few minutes of confusion but have capacity overall.

We will never know but since she did appear confused on this occasion, it remains a possibility.

@BoxingHare

I can’t remember what event it was exactly. Probably around her platinum jubilee? Someone was introduced to her, a man I think, and she didn't seem to know who or what they were. Then she said something to him that didn't make sense and he and the people around seemed puzzled at what she'd said. Then she cut the cake I think? Or she may have done that first?

See, that sounds like a confused and badly recalled memory of an event but I wouldn't base any opinion on your capacity/memory on that.
The rest is your opinion, not facts which is, obviously, fine but there’s no point backing your opinion with a very muddled version of an event you think you remember.

Yes I know there are protocols around hierarchy and speaking up, but I think this crisis is so bad, and KC3 has been so ineffectual, always reactive instead of pro-active, that William would have been justified in making a much stronger independent statement a while back.

Especially as he has had the example of Charles being far too passive over the AMW issue in relation to the late Queen before him, for his entire life!

And yet Charles had been the opposite of passive on other matters, and wrote many “spidery letters” to ministers about architecture and organic farming.

I guess W can’t say anything now because of the police investigation and his comment at the BAFTAs, from what I have read, was taken rather out of context.

None of this is terribly surprising perhaps as W is not known for his dynamism.

Btw, according to Lownie, AMW allegedly paid £10 million to Virginia Giuffre in six monthly payments from the sale of the Verbier chalet plus a bridging loan from Charles. And the late Queen was thought to have contributed a £2 million charity payment that formed part of the settlement. Lownie seems to think that W wasn’t involved in the pay-off anyway.

But I can’t believe that the problematic issue of AMW hadn’t come up at briefing meetings with his father, and palace staff, at various points, years before, and when W was first planning to move his family to Windsor in 2022.

William turned thirty in 2012, and the VG allegations against AMW first became public in 2019. And complaints from diplomats regarding Prince Andrew's behaviour first appeared prominently in the press in 2010 fhs!

Of course it's my opinion. Pretty much everything on here is people's opinions, it's how forums work.

Sorry if you're confused about that 😉

Anyway, it wasn't the platinum jubilee cake cutting because I've just looked and she seemed on her usual form there.

@Roadtripwithpretzels

‘William turned thirty in 2012, and the VG allegations against AMW first became public in 2019’-

No I believe the key date is 2008 . Epstein was a convicted pedophile then. I know Epstein had a much longer association with Andrew than that but plausible deniability ends in 2008 in my opinion .

The point about Elizabeth was that clearly Charles had been running things behind the scenes .
So not only do we have an unelected head of state but other family members can be acting as head of state without informing us. And no Charles turning up for ribbon cutting is not what I mean.

Sorry if you're confused about that 😉

Ho ho.

No, what I said was:

The rest is your opinion, not facts which is, obviously, fine
That means I understand that most things on MN are people's opinions.

However, I then said

there’s no point backing your opinion with a very muddled version of an event you think you remember.

A joke's less amusing if it's based on something you'd like the person to have said rather than what they actually said.

Eta So you're giving your opinion that the late Queen may have lacked capacity on occasion and the only definite thing backing that is your experience with your mother which I'm sorry about - it can't have been easy.
But you did say "FWIW" and - purely in the case of wondering what the Queen's capacity was like on an occasion you can't really remember - it isn't worth much. They're completely different people in completely different circumstances.
Apart from the fact they were both old women.

This is an interesting dilemma - you are complaining about the possibility of Charles lending a hand in the role in the background and that it shouldn't happen BUT on the other hand you then EXPECT William to be responsible for Andrew when you have said that others should not be involved so not only the next generation down - Charles but also the next generation down again. It's a bit contradictory but we know that's how it goes.

What was Amanda Thirsk, his private secretary, thinking when she was arranging all Andrews business and personal life, she has stayed very quiet and she would have had a ringside seat to all this, will she be questioned about what she knew. I’m sure she had some kind of NDA in place, but she stayed with Andrew for years and seemed to be the go between for all his unsavory dealings, did her NDA mean she ‘hid’ things from the RF? She started working for Andrew in 2014 and only resigned in 2020 after the disastrous Emily Maitliss interview.

I stand corrected! Thanks Ukisgaslit!

It’s even worse than we thought! They have had plenty of opportunity to act for years.

Of course it isn't worth much. It was a simple comment in response to another poster who mentioned the queen's capacity. I'd wondered about it back when it happened on that one occasion where I'd seen her being very confused in public. It was a fleeting thought that's stuck in my mind.

I wasn't backing anything up by my hazy recollection, I was more hoping someone might remember the occasion, too, so I had more info to go and find a clip of it.

The posters mentioning the platinum cake cutting helped as I went to look at that and ruled it out. Maybe I even conflated the cake cutting and the meeting, who knows. It doesn't really matter. My wondering something about the queen well over three years ago is hardly important in anyone's world, I'd hope.

What action would you have wanted to see William and Charles take?

Interesting article here from the Times mentioning Amanda Thirsk SimplyT

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/andrew-former-prince-epstein-aides-87bb09xl6#:~:text=Thirsk%20was%20Andrew's%20principal%20private,pound%20Chinese%20e%2Dcommerce%20company.

Can you do an archive link? Thirsk is a fascinating part of this story. She seems to have got away without anyone asking what she knew

I wonder if this deification of Andrew Lownie will last, his next book is on Prince Philip which according to an interview I watched he is a great admirer of, I expect the tide will turn on here when that’s released if it doesn’t help the republican cause.