Andrew - continuing his effort to end the Monarchy, part 2

[AnnunciataM]

I am not the OP of the previous thread but we are nearly at 1000 posts and there's been some very good discussion on there.

Previous thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/5473274-andrew-continuing-his-effort-to-end-the-monarchy

There’s a bit of Bonnie & Clyde about the pair of them. Andrew Lownie’s interview with Dai Davies is an interesting listen when he asks ‘Why did the police / MET never do anything about Andrew and why are they still dragging their feet on opening up an investigation into him, when they wasted no time with Mandelson’.

Also that Tony Blair has remained dead quiet, unlike Gordon Brown, the only former PM to openly call for an investigation into Andrew. And also the deafening silence from ex Tory PMs.

Did QE2 wield such enormous power such that she or her minions would’ve taken punitive action if a regular law enforcement individual decided to investigate Andrew? The protection officers, ambassadors, palace staff all knew untoward things were going on, both with the girls and with UKTI. I think I’m just really taken aback at the level of corruption, but then again these people weren’t paid for their silence. They seem to have volunteered it which is insane.

Thanks @TheAutumnCrow

Archive links
Guardian https://archive.is/pkHM0
MoS https://archive.is/erIxf

Have read the MoS piece, and am just starting the Guardian.

AMW's behaviour is clearly horrendous. One thing that does stand out from the MoS article, which I'd wondered about but hadn't been so clear before, was just how much he was being used.
Those emails back and forward between Stern and Epstein - I wonder if he realised how much his meetings were being manipulated to their advantage rather than his?

And also the deafening silence from ex Tory PMs.

Boris Johnson commented a few days ago on Epstein and the fact that no powerful men have given evidence, and only a woman is in jail. I've shared the link somewhere - will try to find it.

Edit: here we are - I shared it on this thread yesterday https://archive.is/XF03M
(It's an archive link to the Sky rolling news page - scroll down for the first item)

Its clearly obvious he was being used. The man is a buffoonish idiot who is by all accounts unpleasant to be around and a complete personality and intellectual vacuum. I am wondering if he has some kind of learning difficulty when I saw him grinning and waving like a fool in Windsor Great Park. I think he thought these people were his friends, and that's why they gave him money and sorted out women for him, because he thought that being Royal was something they were impressed with in itself, rather than him being a fairly unique combination of stupid but with access to the highest levels of the establishment and the ability to make people turn a blind eye to what he did. I think because of this, you have criminal ( Epstein) stupid and possibly criminal ( AMW) but you also have people who are highly trainied, professionals , people who are paid to do a job, elected representatives,all falling over themselves to cover AMW's ass seemingly just because he is Royal. What we need to look at is why this last group did fal over themselves to protect him. What is the reason for it? I suspect that trail will lead straight back to The Palace.

Johnson, for all his many, many, many faults, wasn't involved in this. Tony Blair, David Cameron and George Osborne need to be made to explain their actions. Not only on this, but what they did to ensure they were ensuring scrutiny of the RF in general. Their obfuscating and refusing to answer a straight question when questioned by David Dimbleby suggests they did absolutely nothing.

Thank you. Yes that’s true, Johnson did comment on it.

I certainly do not want to reignite the H and M debate but didn’t the Windsors waste no time starting an official investigation into claims that M bullied staff??
Have they ever investigated that any Windsors bullied staff never mind the cess pit of sex abuse and friendships with pedophiles. So Charles was friends with Saville and Andrew with Epstein - both linked to large scale pedophile rings .

I understand that the financial corruption is easier to pursue but in my opinion the sex abuse rings are worse crimes involving humans rights abuses .

you also have people who are highly trainied, professionals , people who are paid to do a job, elected representatives,all falling over themselves to cover AMW's ass seemingly just because he is Royal. What we need to look at is why this last group did fal over themselves to protect him. What is the reason for it? I suspect that trail will lead straight back to The Palace.

This is what bothers me, and has throughout this whole saga - that there are powerful people (primarily men) in government who have not taken their responsibilities seriously.

The checks and balances in this country between monarchy, government, parliament (as separate to government), the legislature and the police are all intended to make huge issues like this simply not be able to happen. There must have been failure in all these areas.

ETA We may disagree on monarchy, but monarchy is only part, and the least powerful when all are functioning correctly.

By the way has Liz Truss said anything.

Also: scrutinising the Royal families interaction with government is a big Taboo, and probably the thing that is the big dark secret that no politician of whatever party is willing to delve into.

The freedom of information act was irrc amended to exempt correspondence from the royal family . Charles as Prince of Wales was forever pestering about planning matters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_spider_memos

Couldn’t find any comment from her but maybe she’s referenced it in her podcast which I don’t listen to.

The RF also being exempt from the FOI act of 2000 is also controversial in my view. I get that they are not a public body but they are not wholly private either, given the Sovereign Grant etc., and their official role in public life. Wiki also says that “public authorities holding correspondence with the Royal Family may still be subject to FOI requests, though these are often refused under the "qualified exemption".”

Again, ridiculous. Exactly as a PP said moments ago (sorry forgot who but great comment), who are the people at the highest levels of government who authorized it and shouldn’t they also be held to account.

I have said this before - there was a cover up at the highest levels of government and law enforcement and RF over Louis Mountbatten and the paedophile ring that operated with total impunity at the Kincora Boys Home in East Belfast. I very much hope that investigations will be reopened for those victims.

The checks and balances in this country between monarchy, government, parliament (as separate to government), the legislature and the police are all intended to make huge issues like this simply not be able to happen. There must have been failure in all these areas.
Yes this.
I pointed out in my letter to my MP that modern Parliamentarians are more cowardly and obsequious than the 17th century Barons who allowed Charles II back!

Having a read today and nothing says cover up more than a leaf through the emails and people sending them. So much data from years and years ago, would be good to go through the names and see who is now a Sir or Lord
www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%2010/EFTA02017536.pdf

I think they did actually drag their heels IIRC Jason Knauf wrote an email to PW in October 2018, I believe, raising concerns about how she treated her staff. Nothing formal or official was done at that point. An investigation was only begun when she’d left the RF for at least a year. This is an example of the RF protecting one of their own. When she was in, she got away with her behaviour. I can imagine Andrew is horrible to staff. HMQ was apparently very kind to her staff but allowed her son to get away with such behaviour. I am sure a lot of them are enjoying his downfall.

I don’t know if this is a dumb question but why didn’t the Queen just give Andrew and Sarah a bigger allowance? Not like she couldn’t afford it. Half of their drama seems to directly come from having to beg for money off nefarious people.

I guess no one would have predicted anyone would be so stupid to borrow money off a known pedo.

However much money they had, it was never enough. Some people are like that. Extreme greed

Exactly @simpsonthecatthey we’re both so greedy.

Yes I was coming onto say they were just extremely greedy. I can’t believe HMQ paid for them to build a mansion, despite the Crown owning so many houses, and then when they walked away from it, he was allowed to live in Royal Lodge. It was a fugly house to boot and sat on the market for years before being bought by a dodgy Kazakhstani businessman for an inflated price. Andrew pocketed the money and then frittered it away.

All documents regarding Epstein have now been released according to Pam Bondi.

Link to DM article
archive.ph/3gZm3

IIRC the Queen paid of SF's debts a couple of times (even after her divorce) and then let it be known she wasn't doing so again.

(Please someone correct me if I've got this wrong)

Yes, a previous autobio of Sarah’s says she was expected to live a certain lifestyle in a mansion without really the means to do so.

Are you kidding!? These two seem to have begged, borrowed, sold access and state/ trade secrets, grifted, skimmed charities for decades. A decent (stoatin' by my standards) divorce settlement, book deals and legit TV work in SF's case, too.

And they still don't own a property or (in SF's case) have enough to live on.

They have blown every £1m they got. However much the RF gave them in allowance wouldn't have been enough.

I raised it earlier on ( I think) this thread - WHERE DID ALL THE MONEY GO?

Yes it was so obviously money laundering. Nobody lived in the house after they split up, it went to rack and ruin and was eventually bulldozed. The dodgy tycoon who bought it off of Andrew, gave him £15million (£3M above the asking price) and after 20 years of it decrepit, overgrown, swimming pool tennis court all trashed, he eventually built another mansion in its place. Supposedly no one lives there either.

Anyone with any sort of conscience or moral compass would be so ashamed of that. A wedding gift from the Queen just discarded and used as a cash cow

And what did Andrew do with the £15million. Carefully invested that his easily enough to last a life time.
Nasty greedy people.

I’m sure she was giving Andrew money regularly - he may not have been passing that on to Sarah after the divorce - apart from giving her a free place to live. But as PP said they were profligate spenders and wasteful - luxury travel all over the world, staffing costs - very easy to blow through millions that way.

Also rich people who don’t have a head for money matters often get fleeced by the people around them who are ‘helping’ them out with their ‘business’.

High stakes gambling? The sets he was running with were much richer than him and he seems the sort to want to play above his means. No assets usually is gambling or very very expensive drug habit. Most likely gambling.