Andrew - continuing his effort to end the Monarchy

[TheHaplessWit]

Another new story on Andrew today. Photo's have emerged showing that on Epstein's desk, there were emails regarding Epstein paying debts owed by Andrew/Sarah to staff:

https://people.com/epstein-had-emails-staff-ex-prince-andrew-sarah-ferguson-new-photos-show-11880419

Why on Earth was a Prince of England having his staff paid by a sex trafficker?
Doesn't seem "too honourable" to me.

I will ignore your rudeness however I will say that your belief that the Monarchy’s days are numbered is premature.
When Edward 8th abdicated, people thought the Monarchy would end . It didn’t.
After Diana’s tragic death , there were headlines about the Monarchy being finished . It wasn’t.
Charles marrying Camilla , Princess Margaret’s controversies, Harry flouncing off ….. And that’s just off the top of my head .
The Monarchy survives . Why ? Do we really want a Trump style leader ?
AMW is despicable and yes the late Queen was blinkered by her love for him and KC has been slow to act but the Monarchy will survive .

Oh let's wheel out the Trump as leader yet again

No one is “ wheeling “ him out , it is an example, probably the most famous leader in the world!

It’s a reasonable point. He’s clearly a terrible leader. But a lot of people still have respect for the role of a President as the US Head of State. Just not this one….

And he can be voted out. A monarch can't. We are stuck with whoever

A constitutional monarch can’t change laws, can’t start a war, can’t impact millions of lives the way Trump can though. And it remains to be seen whether he’ll be voted out… Plenty of presidents have ended up being in power for decades (Putin, Mugabe etc etc).

I think there is a difference. I see a 'Constitutional Monarchist' as someone who is generally pro the institution of the Monarchy as long as they don't take advantage of their position ( exemptions from legislation, tax breaks, enabling their children to abuse their positions). Royalists defend them and make excuses for them no matter what they do.
Unfortunately I think its almost impossible to be a Constitutional Monarchist because both the Monarchy and Parliament don't seem to care about accountability or responsibility, and the system doesn't work without that.
We can talk to our MP's until we are blue in the face, but they are shut down by the Speaker so whats the point? We can't object to the Monarch and heir having exemptions from hundreds of Acts of Parliament before they are agreed before they even get to parliament, so we don't know about it until the press decide they care more about the story than they do about being frozen out of Royal press conferences and not having access to photos of the Royal kids, and when MP's and Editors feel doing their jobs in a Constitutional Monarchy is more important than having regular lunches at BP.
Parliament should do its job-discussing the Monarchy, properly scrutinising their finances and holding the enormous power of the Monarchy to account. Instead they seem to think we have an Absolute Monarchy, and the Monarchy seems to behave as if they are an Absolute Monarchy when it comes to troughing as much money from their 'subjects' as it can and demanding that Parliament does their bidding, but a Constitutional Monarchy when it comes to having any kind of responsibility. The only change that has happened (around AMW, for example, and the Crown Estates being forced to do their jobs) has been because of pressure from people like Andrew Lownie and Norman Baker. They are the ones holding the Monarchy into account and forcing them to do things they should have done long ago. Ironically they will probably be the ones who keep the Monarchy around for longer than the Royalists who find excuses for everything they do- until it can't be tolerated any longer.

And, as we know, the Establishment bends the rules to ensure unsuitables are sidelined. Harry will never get near being Regent for George.

And can we not absolve the politicians here from the alleged grift and misuse of powers. All those mediocre people absolutely gagging for the chance to get next to the RF, with the status that brings in the higher echelons of business and society.

Why in God's name in the 2020s does royal favour - having a title or an OBE and an invitation to Sandringham/Balmoral every now and then - confer such status on the beneficiary that it is so coveted by the people who run businesses, the civil service and the country? THAT is something that does not sit well within a constitutional framework.

I would suggest, if we wanted to get rid of the Monarchy, we should start with dismantling the Honours system. Then progress to legislation to render obsolete titles such as Duke-of-This and Earl-of-That. Reform of the House of Lords, so that it becomes a chamber of experts, not genetic lotto-winners, would follow.

If we are mature enough as a country to do all this, then we could look at a system for choosing HoS. But just saying "get rid of the Monarchy" while leaving the scaffolding of sycophancy that supports it in place is missing the target.

Absolutely. The Monarchy and its patronage is kept in place by the sycophancy and culture of deference around the Monarchy. Self interest above all.

I imagine that the press focus being on a different Andy would probably be quite welcomed by him

Well said Starmer! I really applaud that.

Oh to be a fly on the wall at the next audience of King + PM 😀

I would suggest, if we wanted to get rid of the Monarchy, we should start with dismantling the Honours system. Then progress to legislation to render obsolete titles such as Duke-of-This and Earl-of-That. Reform of the House of Lords, so that it becomes a chamber of experts, not genetic lotto-winners, would follow.

New Zealand actually did this in 2000 - replacing Knighthoods and Damehoods bestowed by the King’s representative, the Governor-General, with membership of the “Order of New Zealand”. It turned out to be ery unpopular with the public generally, who clamoured for the old Honours to be restored. New Zealand being a democracy, the titles were restored in 2009 and the experiment has not been repeated.

Also - you may have missed it, but the Labour government has introduced the House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) Bill 2024-25, which aims to remove the final 92 hereditary peers of the 669 members of the House of Lords entirely. All the rest were removed in 1999. Of course you can’t stop some potential genetic lotto winners even then - like Boris Johnson appointing Charlotte Owen to be a life peer in 2023.

I’d be a bit more inclined to applaud Starmer if when asked yesterday about Peter Mandelson - erstwhile UK Ambassador to the US and crony of Epstein - he hadn’t simply said "I've nothing more to say in relation to Peter Mandelson," after noting he had been removed from his post last year.

And Liz Truss appointing one peer for every 1.5 days served as PM. It's a joke and needs an overhaul.
IF leaving prime ministers appoint, there should be a limit on it. The HoL is overblown and rammed.

Do we really want a Trump style leader ?

I want a leader who can both be voted out and/ or deposed by a vote of no confidence if necessary. Not one who along with their heirs is imposed in perpetuity.

And why would we get a Trump style leader anyway?

If the royals are so convinced they're the right fit for the role there would be nothing to stop any of them standing in an election for it.

Ours are not the only royals with Epstein and other issues
Rape trial puts Norway's royal family in unwelcome glare of public https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2xj3ykpj4o

If the royals are so convinced they're the right fit for the role there would be nothing to stop any of them standing in an election for it.

This has happened a few times - Seretse Khama of Botswana became King aged 4, and after independence became President of Botswana (he’d also been its PM). And Simeon of Bulgaria was dethroned aged nine after WWII, then became Prime Minister of Bulgaria as an adult.

Peter Mandelson is one of those men who tout themselves as brilliantly astute, Machiavellian power-players who deserve to be running the world, then, as soon as they are accused of anything dodgy, suddenly claim how naive and trusting and innocent in the ways of these things they are.

Literally unbelievable.

OMG can someone pin something on royal threads to stop the ‘trump’ nonsense .

The USA / France have executive presidents - a completely different system . But it think they know that . They just hope others are stupid enough to fall for it .

I heard him talk about not knowing anything. That can’t be right given the dates of prison and money transfer?

He needs to be asked the same questions again

Has anyone zoomed in on the large table in the latest Andrew pics and seen the items on it.

What are they?

Agree! What about Mandelson being urged to testify, as well as AMW.

Interesting article in the Mail, purporting that JE was recruited into espionage by Robert Maxwell as an agent for the KGB and Israel.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15516349/Epsteins-sex-empire-KGB-honeytrap-Paedophile-financier-Putin-Russian-girls.html