William and tax on the Duchy of Cornwall

[GardenDancing]

I keep reading that William doesn’t declare the amount of tax he pays on the Duchy of Cornwall. Apparently Charles did when he was Prince of Wales and sources say that William is paying appropriate tax, so why do you think he declines to be as transparent as his father was? I understand he isn’t obliged to share it, but people seemed annoyed and suspicious that he isn’t. If he’s paying appropriate tax like we are told, which I’m presuming is true, why wouldn’t he just share that to stop people speculating?

In the 'similar threads' section below this one I can see this has been discussed many times before - how can this actually be changed? would Starmer have to step-up?

This is the problem. The majority of the blame goes to successive governments and Prime Ministers. They are clearly pressurised in their secret 'audiences' into folding and doing everything demanded of them by the Monarch, then instead of saying no they fall over themselves to give them what they want. Successive Prime Ministers have negotiated deals with the RF that are watertight but always detrimental to us and favourable to the RF. At least David Dimbleby in his documentary asked David Cameron and George Osborne why they did what they did (not that he got an answer- probably because it would be difficult to justify) They should be representing us but have singularly failed to do this in any way. Then they have the cheek to say they will not discuss anything to do with the RF in Parliament, even in the face of the avalanches of concerns about AMW and the rest of them. There's no point then lobbying our MP's on this because MP's who have tried to raise this have been shut down time and again. They whole thing is a scam that we are paying for. By all means have a Constitutional Monarchy but be transparent about your finances and what you want, dont take the piss. They will still have more money and privilege than they deserve or need. Our entire system is corrupt and they are at the top of it.

Thanks for the info, it raises other issues though obviously - why does the Prince of Wales need Kensington Palace when he's just moved into another home elsewhere. The fact that they need £m's in funds to maintain the vast property network shows that they have too many properties. Why don't the working royals all get to pick one house (with Balmoral as the royal holiday destination) and all the others get sold to help with public funding issues. I'm fairly sure there are more houses/palaces than there are working Royals.

Also, good point on the other Duke's - they are a complete scam too - how the Duke of Westminster avoided inheritence tax on £10bn should be a crime and no one else in the country should be expected to pay inheritence tax if he doesn't have to.

The Guardian report it (half way down this article)

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2023/apr/05/revealed-royals-took-more-than-1bn-income-from-controversial-estates-king-charles-queen-duchies-cornwall-lancaster

Thanks @TheHaplessWit

Your link said

The late queen was reported to have used Duchy of Lancaster income to help Prince Andrew pay an undisclosed sum – reported to be more than £9m – to end the sexual assault case filed against him by Virginia Giuffre.

However, the reference it linked through to gave neither the amount nor any reference to the Duchy, so I still haven't any convincing source for this claim.

The Prince of Wales pays for the Kensington Palace operation out of the profits of the Duchy, so not just 'play money' or a 'holiday fund'.

Anyone would think they didn't get a Sovereign Grant of £185million this year which covers for that! Poor things.

The Duchy money is income for, primarily, their private lives. So when we hear... this or that was paid for out of their private income, we know it is Duchy money. Or moving a tennis court a few feet for one of their forever homes. Or one of the many many holidays William goes on.

Money grows money. No wonder Charles is worth nearly 2 billion and William will be worth that when he inherits (no IHT like the rest of us of course)

I reiterate - a legal deal was made between the RF and the government. It has nothing to do with how much you think the monarch and heir should now get in allowances.

We need a certain Donald Trump to eye all this loot up. He'd love to get his hands on the Duchies and the foreshores etc. with their vast deposits of something or other that can be mined I'm sure. He's the one to sort this out when he's over in Greenland, UK is only down the road.

Thanks for reiterating. Yes a legal deal was done in 1337 to create a 'Duchy' to give the royal heir some funds.

Thankfully, many of our laws and 'legal deals' have been updated since this happened, I don't think it's controversial to suggest that this deal (which is 668 years old) get replaced with something more appropriate - like a transparent state funded allowance.

Anyone would think they didn't get a Sovereign Grant of £185million this year which covers for that! Poor things.

As I understand it (and I may be wrong), the Sovereign Grant pays for official duties and the upkeep of the palaces. The monarch uses this and part of the Duchy of Lancaster funds to support members of the RF in their duties, except the PoW/DoC who has the Duchy of Cornwall.

Hence why I said the KP 'operation' (offices, staff etc) came out of Duchy revenue.

Happy to be corrected if someone knows otherwise.

I don't know why paying tax stopped when the late Queen ascended the throne - I think they should have continued as they did from Victoria to George VI.*

George V didn't pay tax on much of his income - that requirement for the monarch to pay was removed in a swap for him paying the costs of visiting heads of state while he was in the throne.

George VI was the one who then ended up not paying tax on private income from 1937/38, it didn't start with QEII. The papers related to how that came about apparently were destroyed so nobody can see if it was GVI that suggested it or the government.

As I understand it, the SG covers all that sort of thing... staffing salaries, travel, upkeep of Monarchy properties etc. Anything that is official duties

The Duchy funds don't cover that. Unless I am reading it wrong and the sources I've read are incorrect.

Us talking about this shows how grey area it all is.

I'm all for revisiting the current arrangements ( and, until I got older and disillusioned, was all for abolishing the monarchy).

What I don't like is beating up on the current incumbents, particularly the junior one who has no say (yet) in the set- up., as if it were a personal failing of theirs.

As I understood it, it was just the Civil List that became free of tax - the Duchies were still subject to income tax during George V's reign.

I didn't know that re George VI - thanks.

I agree that the current incumbents can't be blamed for previous decisions, but this whole thread was started because the new holder of the Duchy of Cornwall decided to deviate from the previous arrangement (which publicly disclosed any tax paid by the Duchy).

So it is fair to judge William on his own decision. The rest of the discussion, regarding the Duchy's needing replacing, is nothing personal to any individual - just a need for systemic change in government/royal funding arrangements and transparency.

Duchy funds are used towards private, official and charitable activities.

As I understood it, it was just the Civil List that became free of tax - the Duchies were still subject to income tax during George V's reign.

I didn't know that re George VI - thanks.

From what I've read the Duchies were also exempt in his agreement about tax.

This was an interesting read about the various debates over the years

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/05/who-owns-and-profits-from-the-duchies-of-lancaster-and-cornwall-timeline

Nasty too to parade your credentials as a public servant while fleecing public services, charities and your own armed forces to line your pockets.

@MannersAreAll My info was from here - section 3, part 3.4

The Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall continued to be liable for income tax, although an exemption on rental income for the Duchy of Lancaster was granted in 1933.

Finances of the Monarchy (it's a parliamentary briefing paper)

@simpsonthecat
The diagram on pg 6 of above shows that the Duchy of Lancaster contributes to the cost of the official duties.
Section 5 (page 49): The revenue from the Duchy [of Cornwall] is 'used to fund the public, private and charitable activities of The Duke and his immediate family'.

This article https://archive.is/oIxla just under the 'What is the Duchy?' heading says the money goes towards funding the KP operation and paying staff.

Norman Baker's latest book is going some way to address that.

I hope it gets a wide audience.

The state assets you refer to used to belong to the RF. They handed them over on the understanding that they'd be paid an allowance. That was the deal.

They handed them over in exchange for a fixed sum (Civil List) to be debated regularly in Parliament.

That agreement was superseded by the creation of the Sovereign Grant in 2011 which arbitrarily tied royal income to profits generated by a state asset and freed them from the drudge of regular scrutiny in the process.

Since then their income has soared exponentially and continues to do so.

Us talking about this shows how grey area it all is.

Agree

(Sorry - too late to edit previous post!)

why does the Prince of Wales need Kensington Palace when he's just moved into another home elsewhere

According to a response I had on another thread when questioning the rationale for yet another forever home when the initial KP forever home had been renovated at huge public expense, KP is now operated as offices and a crash pad for when W and co. are in That London on business.

So it's all OK. Phew.

William, Charlotte and George arrived at KP by helicopter a couple of days ago with suitcases etc. and two family dogs.

What are his children (and dogs) doing at the office and what business are they undertaking?

This article describes KP as their London home.

https://www.marieclaire.com/celebrity/royals/william-kate-new-dog-helicopter-landing-kensington-palace/

Anyone would think they didn't get a Sovereign Grant of £185million this year which covers for that! Poor things.

Interestingly and referring back yet again to Norman Baker. (Sorry but it's an excruciating read even for one as inured as I am to stories of royal greed!) it appears the bill for palace repairs was deemed to have been affordable without an uptick in grant as late as 2016 (£55m) then suddenly jumped in a year to £369m and got waved through by Teresa May's government without question.

Astounding.

The Civil List is completely different thing