William and tax on the Duchy of Cornwall

[GardenDancing]

I keep reading that William doesn’t declare the amount of tax he pays on the Duchy of Cornwall. Apparently Charles did when he was Prince of Wales and sources say that William is paying appropriate tax, so why do you think he declines to be as transparent as his father was? I understand he isn’t obliged to share it, but people seemed annoyed and suspicious that he isn’t. If he’s paying appropriate tax like we are told, which I’m presuming is true, why wouldn’t he just share that to stop people speculating?

@BasiliskStare

I haven’t re read your post - Im travelling at the minute - the ‘fantasy’ which I saw in your post was your statement that all Duchy proceeds go to the treasury ! They do not .

Tbe other ‘fantasy’ was that there was proper scrutiny of Duchy accounts . There is not . The accounts are presented as the Windsors wish them to be . Do you see the difference

The Windsors are above the law re tax. No tax due . Utterly disgraceful.

The Duchies are privately owned and the revenues go to the Monarch and the heir.

The revenue from the Crown Estate goes to the Treasury, and currently 12% from that revenue is paid to the Royal Household for official duties and upkeep of royal palaces in the form of the Sovereign Grant (reviewed every 5 years, accounts scrutinised by National Audit Office yearly).
The Crown Estate Commissioners run the Crown Estate, and the Royal Family are not involved.

The Duchy of Cornwall was created in 1337 by Edward III for his son and heir, with the intent that it should provide an income for the heir to the throne. The Duchy of Cornwall Management Acts ensure the financial security of the Duchy (Prince of Wales receives revenue but not capital; Treasury oversight of property transactions; accounts scrutinised by Public Accounts Committee yearly).

The Duchy of Lancaster was created in 1351 and linked to the Crown in 1399. Henry IV on acceding specified that it should be held separately from other Crown possessions and descend as a private estate.
Following the Crown Lands Act 1702, the Monarch has benefited from the revenue and not the capital assets, ensuring the ongoing financial security of the Duchy; accounts scrutinised by Public Accounts Committee yearly.

So, the Duchies are owned in the same way as other members of the aristocracy own their dukedoms (e.g. Duke of Devonshire, Buccleuch&Queensberry, Westminster) but are older than most. They are privately owned but have specific restrictions to ensure they remain financially secure to continue to provide for the Monarch and heir.

If they are allowed to choose whether/how much they pay, then they aren't paying any tax at all - as the very nature of tax is that it is compulsory.

At best, they're making a donation or - more likely - buying themselves good PR.

In any case, it's irrelevant if it's all optional and classified information. I often think about when people who win big on gameshows make a huge thing about how they want to give 'some' of it to a heartstring-tugging cause that's dear to their hearts and thus come across as a wonderfully generous person. In reality, if they win, say, £100k, then £50k, £20k, £1k or a fiver would all legitimately count as 'some'.

I haven’t seen the exaggerating or making up cancer claims but don’t doubt you. Is it on mumsnet or elsewhere? By ‘C’, do you mean Catherine or Charles? I think they both look very ill, Catherine particularly, and even with the Royals bad behaviour and lack of respect for the public, I do not believe this would be lied about.

The poor parenting is presumably about the children being allowed to mix with the crowd so much on Xmas day. I do think that does show poor parenting and a lack of good judgement. Hopefully they’ll view the footage and make changes for next year because the children shouldn’t be put in the position where they’re asked for hugs and having to listen to obsessed fans talking to them like they know them and their dead nan!!!!!

The optics are very important if he wants to get or keep the public onside. He (and you) seem oblivious to that. He isn’t just another wealthy person going on lots of holiday, he’s a member of the royal family and future king paid for by the taxpayer.

@bluegreygreen

Where is it stated that the Duchys are privately owned?

They are not . They are part of the public when it suits them/ private when it suits them scam that the Windsors run

The Duchys belong to the state . In fact the Windsors themselves use this argument to avoid tax . If the Duchys were truly privately owned they’d be legally bound to pay their taxes like the rest of us .

I see these insinuations re ‘narratives’ every now and then.

They mostly come from royalists . Yet it is Kensington palace who have been shown to spend fortunes on bots . Most evident that day when William was too lazy to support women’s football and was being heavily criticised. Twitter as it was then, was flooded with identical tweets in support of William only the names changed . Laughable and clumsy

.As long as he does the work required of him by the government, does it matter how many holidays the family take?

Yes it matters . For the very reason MMXXI says
Optics

They'll be off ski-ing soon, they need to get a move on if they are to beat Beatrice's record of 17 holidays in one year 🤣

@bluegreygreen

Why have you tried to link the Duke of Devonshire etc to the Windsor scam ?

The only Duchys which do not pay their due tax are the Duchy of Cornwall and the Duchy of Lancaster .

The rest of the population, dukes or otherwise , are liable for tax .
They have trusts, sure , but trusts pay tax . Almost the same tax in fact as would be due re inheritance tax - just spread out over decades . We can all use a trust if we wish .

The Duchies are public property. And the Crown Estates have always been public property, the revenue they raise is public revenue.
The monarch is a position in the UK state that the UK owns the Crown Estates through, a position that would be abolished in a republic, leading to the Crown Estates being directly owned by the republican state

They really ought to be renamed. Just because they have the word 'Crown', does not mean the royals own them!

The optics are very important if he wants to get or keep the public onside. He (and you) seem oblivious to that. He isn’t just another wealthy person going on lots of holiday, he’s a member of the royal family and future king paid for by the taxpayer.

I agree the optics are important.

Re tax, I've said why I think he may have made the decisions he has, and what the UK legal position is. I haven't said I agree with it.

Re 'paid for by the taxpayer': the PoW pays for the Kensington Palace operation out of the revenue from the Duchy of Cornwall. I'm not sure how much of his official duties are paid for through the Sovereign Grant (not taxpayer funded) or if they are all covered by KP. His security is paid for by the taxpayer.

The Prince of Wales pays tax on the same basis as the previous Prince of Wales

Royal Taxation
(para 2.2)

It's the new PR guru. I predict he'll be out by Easter.

The Prince of Wales pays tax on the same basis as the previous Prince of Wales

What does 'on the same basis' mean? It could mean 'voluntary'. Very clever wording. If he pays an identical percentage to what Charles used to, why is he so determined not to tell the british public how much when Charles always did?
I call BS.

Whose PR guru?

I presume William's. Didn't know he had a new one.

He doesn't. I'm referring to the London-based one for the current prince over the waters. 😁

What's that to do with the thread title? William and tax on the duchy of Cornwall.
I'm mystified.
Is there some sort of connection with the Duchy?

Oh, how the very unpoors live!

I receive money from the public purse and I pay tax, but I don't publicise the details. That is a matter between me and HMRC.

Why would he be any different?

I don't doubt HMRC will chase him for anything owing.

The difference is that HMRC wouldn't ever be chasing him as he's legally exempt from paying tax.

He receives money from the public purse, states that he voluntarily pays tax from it (which they all decided to do because the fact they paid nothing was starting to cause serious public annoyance around the time of the Windsor fire), but has basically said it's now nobody's business what tax is paid.

He's changed from his father's way of doing things so people are entitled to question why, and also if that lack of transparency means the way the royals are funded should change.

Of course they won't chase him. Since QE2 set a precedent to pay some tax, Charles has declared how much on duchy money
William has changed that and keeps it secret.

It doesn't bode well for the future as far as I'm concerned.
As it is the duchies are exempt from corporation tax and capital gains tax which gives an unfair advantage.
The royals can't have it all ways. Exemptions but no transparency about the tax they do pay.

Why would he be any different?

I would have thought that was obvious.

It not even tax, it's a donation that doesn't equal the tax that would ordinarily be due.

I’d never seen that MoU before, that is insane.

Hopefully the next Prime Minister will be brave enough to force the current and future Royals to pay tax in the same way as ordinarily individuals do. I’d love to see how the Royals oppose the introduction of such an Act without the British people baying for a Republic!

The Duchy of Lancaster is administered by the Chancellor of the Duchy which is a Cabinet post. Why aren't the government drawing criticism if the public doesn't like how it's run?

Royal finances are extremely complex, the Crown Estate, for example, was given to the country by one of the Georges, I want to say Third but I can't remember, in return he, as monarch no longer had to fund the army. This is hundreds of years of finances with unclear lines between personal and public. William doesn't own the Duchy of Cornwall, he holds it in trust as the Heir and can use the income but can't funnel profits into his private purse.

It's a mess to modern eyes and should have been sorted out at least a decade or two ago but, imo, deference to the late Queen meant that no politician would grasp the nettle. Someone needs to step up and take the time to set the whole financial muddle on a clear footing suitable for the 21st century.

We can all throw accusations around about laziness or grift, depending on our politics and how we view the monarchy but none of what is going on is illegal and if we want politicians and the monarchy to change we need to campaign effectively for it. Throwing insults at William isn't an effective campaign it's social media noise.

Amen @MrsLeonFarrell

I am by and large constitutional monarchist , but I do think the finances should be more transparent. And scrutinised. Eg personal wealth being handed down monarch to monarch with no inheritance tax. And I do agree it is a mess which should be sorted out. I think this just seems like something which KC and W should be lining up. Because some who currently support them may not if they don't make big reforms here. But that is one opinion

I agree that they will ultimately lose support to some degree if this isn't sorted out. It may be that there is a plan or some discussions taking place behind the scenes, or there may not be. It's such a big and complex thing to tackle. Inheritance tax, as an example. It seems simple, pay it on their private wealth, but in reality what is private and what is crown wealth isn't at all clear. If we want the monarch to pay inheritance tax then we need to work out what they would pay it on first. It's not simple and it wouldn't be quick so they really need to be get on with it. Maybe indicate to Government that a committe needs to be set up, of people who are serious and competent not just grand standing, is a good first step?

it doesn't include much of what he is doing behind the scenes.

If we really have to buy into the 'behind the scenes' work, IMO it's most likely related to maximising his income from the Duchy which he seems very much on top of.