New series on the royals with Dimbleby

[MeNotMyselfAndI]

Anyone watching? Just watched Ep 2 on royal finances - it’s unbelievable. Greedy greedy fuckers! 🤬

I think they know they can’t defend them in any valid way on this so they’re mainly staying away from the thread, waiting for it to fade away. If they post, they bring the thread more attention. They’ll be quietly seething though.

I’m pro constitutional monarchy for our head of state - through doesn’t necessarily make me a royalist (I’m never going to queue up to watch them on Christmas Day etc)

I’d also be open to the possibility of a republic if there was enough public and political will and a strong plan to replace the current system with something positive and protective of our history and traditions.

I’m also for a greater transparency on the financials - how the Crown estate is run, rents, taxes etc.

I’ve said all this on multiple other threads many times though so not sure what the benefit of repeating it here.

I’d also be open to the possibility of a republic if there was enough public and political will and a strong plan to replace the current system with something positive and protective of our history and traditions.

I think the public will is turning but the political will is sadly sorely lacking although the PAC looking at whether royal property occupation is being properly administered is a good start.

I'd recommend Graham Smith's book 'Abolish The Monarchy, Why We Should And How We Will' which sets out a comprehensive template for the establishment of a UK republic.

It's often the case when yet more indefensible information comes to light but I will admit to quite enjoying some of the contortions adopted when they try to justify it 🙃

Dimbleby Part3 is on bbc1 in half an hour

Another constitutional monarchist here, until such time as a proper thought out alternative, rather than off with their heads.

However I’ve said before, that I think in the next 20/30 years, we will no longer have a monarchy.

If I’m right, it will hopefully be just about in my lifetime & im looking forward to seeing history being made.

Very good series, I knew a lot but thought a Dimbleby angle would be interesting.
I don't mind them existing but they should pay tax - including inheritance, capital gains etc -and we shouldn't pay them anything, unless they host a state visit.
Still grates that Liz and Phil the Greek made William and Harry walk behind Diana's coffin and do meet and greet, just to make themselves look better after ignoring her death. And quite frankly, when you see the timing of Liz's payout to Virginia Guiffre, just before the jubilee, it shows cynicism and lack of respect.
I'm with Stacey Solomon when she said that she'd be happy to do that job if someone gave her a load of cash and 5 houses.
As for Andrew, he should be banished to far flung shores like his great uncle.

I am finding the series interesting and it does raise questions about where we draw the line on everything. Even David Dimbleby said Charles should have told his brother to Fuck Off when he asked about his marriage.

I don’t agree with the palace asking for the moment the Crown Jewels were removed from the late Queen’s coffin to not be shown again. Requesting they don’t show Edward crying at his Mum’s funeral is reasonable. I certainly wouldn’t want the footage of William and Harry at Diana’s funeral shown.

A greater degree of clarity of what is private and what is public, be it funerals or finances, is reasonable. However, once you have identified what is private then the RF then get the same level of privacy, tax rules etc. as anyone of us would have.

I still don’t get why if the Duchy’s own a property charging a market rent is seen as unreasonable. The property still has to be maintained etc. Obviously the Duchy’s should pay tax on the rent and be subject to the same laws as other corporations/people.

Ground rent/ peppercorn rent are paid when you have paid a heck load of money for a lease. I bought a leasehold flat for £250,000 many years ago. My ground rent was a £100pa. It’s ridiculous to expect anyone royal or not to pay substantially more for ground rent when the lease is the expensive part.

Also - from your youngest days all adults around you bow to you.

I still don’t get why if the Duchy’s own a property charging a market rent is seen as unreasonable. The property still has to be maintained etc. Obviously the Duchy’s should pay tax on the rent and be subject to the same laws as other corporations/people.

It's unreasonable when they don't pay tax on the profits.

I Wonder if the political will is missing because they know that a proper review of the constitutional monarchy, the Crown Estate, the Duchies and untangle what is personal and what is held by the country or the monarch etc etc would reveal a lot of inequality in the country as a whole. The Royal family gets targeted, and let's face it their finances really do need clarification and reform, but standing in their shadows is a large number of very wealthy people who dodge tax and manipulate the system for their own gain as well. Look at the royals and the whole structure is brought into the light.

I'm with you and @wordler .

Constitutional monarchist because that's what we've got, but not averse to an elected HoS if we can trust the political classes not to mess up in designing a new constitution.(Brexit referendum - I'm looking at you, Cameron!)

I also think that we might see a monarchical retreat under William, whereby he negotiates a large settlement (after all, the Duchies did originally belong to the Georges, and they ceded control of them to the government in return for income) to fade gradually and quietly. I get the impression that William takes his role and duties seriously, while also recognising the absurdity of his position and its effect on his children.

P.S. I'm amused by the reverse scolding on this thread. On other RF threads we're regularly told to get a life, asked 'why are you even bothered' and get the 'yet here you are' put-down. Here, it's 'where are all the monarchists?'

Yes. Clearly this is the unreasonable part. They are a commercial interest when it comes to them collecting the cash but not when it comes to them paying tax on their earnings. Which is it? I wonder if they managed to get an exemption from the 'mansion tax'?

I agree. And I suspect that is why, even though everyone, monarchists, republicans and those in between think there should be transparency and paying of tax on private properties, its not done. Because there are others on the take too. Including most of the Aristocracy.

Until last year I have been a royalist to the core. Now not so much

I was also a life long supporter and a donated to RNLI. No longer since I heard all the slipways in the uk (the places they launch the lifeboats) have to pay rent to the royals. I’ll be damned if my donations to save lives at sea even one penny goes to some rich aristocrats. Shame on the RF and the RNLI board.

... the Duchies did originally belong to the Georges, and they ceded control of them to the government in return for income

If you're thinking of the 1766 arrangement, @Rhaidimiddim, the Duchies weren't handed over along with the rest - though it's never been clear why

Some say they were worth much less then and were somehow "forgotten about", but there's certainly an anomaly there

@WittyTaupeFox
And Charles is Patron of the RNLI.
You actually just couldn't make this up. How can they even think this is acceptable.

All the slipways across the whole country? Or just the ones on the Duchy of Cornwall land?

Other sources of income include six lifeboat stations owned by the Royal National Lifeboat Institute (RNLI) — a charity of which the King is patron — which have to pay £600 a year in total to use Duchy beaches in Salcombe, Sennen Cove, the Lizard, Rock, Penlee and St Mary’s.
King Charles III is a patron of the RNLI, following in the footsteps of his mother, and the RNLI frequently name boats after members of the Royal Family.
From a report in the London Economic.
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/the-royal-family-is-charging-the-rnli-to-launch-their-boats-385225/

Watched part 3 last night, it seems pretty ironic that the BBC accuse the rf of only showing what they want the press and viewers to see when they are biased, faked the Trump speech and cover up so much.

I still don’t get why if the Duchy’s own a property charging a market rent is seen as unreasonable. The property still has to be maintained etc. Obviously the Duchy’s should pay tax on the rent and be subject to the same laws as other corporations/people.

You've just answered your own question.

It's because they're not subject to the same laws that it's a problem.

Someone owns most bits of land if it wasn't the King it would be someone else. Would be nice if they ceded the land under the slipway but i don't know enough about that legal areas to know if it's as simple as it sounds.

I used to know someone who lived backing onto Richmond Park. They paid rent to the crown for the last 3 feet of their garden because it was originally a carriageway round the park.

There are lots and lots of weird anomalous laws like this in the UK simply because of how old everything is and how it is basically stitched together by precedent and custom. It isn't only the monarchy that benefits either.

It's good to bring things into the light and consider whether the precedent is still fit for purpose in the 21st century but i don't see it as a character flaw in the King that these things which have existed for centuries still exist now he has taken the throne.

So is it just those six? What about the others around the country?

Looks like William waived the fees for those six last year.

The more sunlight that reaches the recesses of the RF and their financial doings the better for all...