Here we go … Andrew to leave Royal Lodge and lose title

[Flixon]

Headlined in The Times just now …. About bloody time …

Thanks for clarifying. They do have private homes though (eg Sandringham and Balmoral). Those are their private homes. And sorry, I understand you meant S Ken as an example haha.

I agree I don’t feel “deferent”, but I feel that our constitutional monarchy isn’t broken so I don’t see the need to fix it. I don’t think that the monarchy is to blame for the class system in this country. I think that all stemmed much more from the rise of the middles class during the Industrial Revolution. Largely, the aristocracy keep themselves to themselves and much of their wealth is tied up in their property

The benefit is that it divides power, it prevents a Prime Minister from having too much control, it's part of a check and balance system.

Agree with this. That’s one of the reasons why I support keeping the monarchy. Just one look at Trump’s America (a presidential system that supposedly has checks and balances, but which are actually quite easy to erode) seriously puts me off replacing our monarchy with another system.

Yes I could just about accept William's disgusted at what's been happening, Blossomtoes, purely because there's no conclusive evidence to suggest otherwise, but AFAIK there's no evidence to show he's the one who's pushed the latest action either

We'll get a better idea of what he's really about when his turn as King comes, but there are a LOT of expectations around what he'll change and I can't help feeling this could lead to disappointment if the change doesn't happen

I think the monarchy are quite linked to rhe class system though. As members of the aristocracy, they are at the top of the class system, so they have a stake in it and a real interest in keeping it as it is.

he's going to live at sandringham so i read this morning...not sure where fergie's going.

As I said, the royals were historically UK icons, Meghan & Harry have made great trade on it (and are lucky to be out of it imo). But they have lost popularity.
In 1977 my mother was a big supporter of the establishment, draped our house in metres of home made bunting. She took us to military tattoos & trooping the colour at horseguards.
I just don't see that sort of support around any more. The Queen's death was like a full stop at the end of that.
They are to some extent part of the national identity, I think their loss would create a vacuum that would not be easily filled, but they depend on our largesse rather than vice versa and we all know it.
The revenues from the crown estate, including the foreshore and many wind farms need to come under greater scrutiny.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64319323
I also question why royal wills are not in the public domain. There are national treasures that royals are custodians of that the nation would profit from shared access to.
They have amassed a great deal of private property as a bulwark to their future, I wonder how they, like many other owners of great houses, would have to adjust their lives to maintain them if they weren't propped up by the public purse.

Throwing Andy under the bus is a tacit acknowledgement of their vulnerability to public opinion.

What about all the other families who have built their wealth on the backs of the public, but just don't happen to be royal? Do we start a general purge on old money wealth?

I agree that deference isn't good for society. Just look at the government refusing to step up here

That's what bugs the hell out of me too, @MrsLeonFarrell, especially with the recent comments about legislation (around stripping Andrew's titles) being "a matter for the family in the first instance" and the appalling intent to block all discussion

Even as a republican I could just about be persuaded of the merits of a constitutional monarchy if it could be made to operate properly, but as we've seen it clearly isn't doing and there seems no appetite to make sure it does

I don’t think that the aristocracy see themselves as top of the tree these days. I think that’s more a perception of others. Class snobbery is much more prevalent amongst those who are self made. I think that many aristocrats see themselves more as custodians of history. Generally I don’t think they look down on others. There will obviously always be exceptions of which Mr A Mountbatten-Windsor is a prime example 😆

Not quite the same thing. Those with wealth have no hotline to the PM, have no international soft power role, pay taxes, abide by the tax and environmental laws (even if they can avoid some taxes legally!) as the rest of us, their wills are visible to anyone, and there are people like them all over the world. The RF is a RF and therefore unique in that regard.

The revenues from the crown estate, including the foreshore and many wind farms need to come under greater scrutiny.

You may be right that there needs to be greater scrutiny.
The profits of the Crown Estate go to the Treasury, which currently retains 88%.
12% is given to the monarch in the form of the Sovereign Grant for official duties and upkeep of the palaces.
Since the Sovereign Grant Act of 2011 the SG has had the same scrutiny via the National Audit Office as any other government department. This report is published with the SG annual report each year (a public document).

I'm not sure what the answer is. Maybe with time the government will start to see that the public in general want them to use the checks and balances? I do feel that the extremely long reign of the late Queen was harmful in this respect. A very old fashioned outdated deference was accorded to her and people seem to have been tiptoeing around her when a bit of plain speaking was called for.

I’ll get to them next!

:)

Harry and Meghan are not universally disliked. A lot of old-school monarchists and royal commentators disliked Meghan from the start for being too old, too American and too black.

There have been credible death threats against Meghan and her children, confirmed by Scotland Yard,

Andrew had sex with an underage sex-trafficked young girl. Harry and Meghan left the UK and Harry wrote a book. Andrew deserves to lose his Royal titles, Harry doesn't.

Andrew is still a member of the Royal Family, even if he doesn't have his titles and if Harry and Meghan are the most disliked Royals about Andrew, there is something wrong with this country.

Every now and again I look at Fox news in the States, here is the latest. They have the whole monarchy hanging by a thread!

And they say that the guy who called out to Charles a few days ago when he was on a visit really got to him.
Well done that man. For calling out a question

https://www-foxnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.foxnews.com/entertainment/king-charles-stunning-prince-andrew-exile-may-too-little-too-late-royals-cling-reputation-expert.amp

Guess B&E will have to draw straws on who takes in mummy to live with them? Not sure she’ll pass the credit checks to get a rental anywhere😭

Absolutely spot on.
I think the UK does have some obligations as a country re the billions made from empire and slave trading. I think a non partisan, expert led committee could come up with some way of making meaningful amends/reparations for this.

Indeed some of the so called 'private' wealth of the RF comes from these sources too.

This, for me , comes under the title of 'be careful what you wish for'.

What we have in the UK has been 'stable' for 1000 years and I'm not an iconoclast who wants to destroy and replace it like some sort of cultural revolution. otoh the world is changing and the monarchy must change too to survive.

I wonder, if William hadn't conquered, if we would have a more Nordic monarchy.

Definitely agree that the Queen's long reign, ossified in the attitudes of the 1950s, had an effect here, MrsLF, but while I'd like to think governments would pay heed to calls for accountability I'm really not confident

After all they don't exactly appreciate accountability being applied to themselves, so it's not even as if they have a taste for it

Yes, I'm not sure there any system that can manage the corrosive effects of power.

Yes, I possibly begrudingly give them a decent flat and a decent amount of cash each, and be done with it.
It did cross my mind that they should keep an eye on Andrew- could he be feeling suicidal?
Also, and based just on watching that Neflix US political drama where all the US political elite are at an event and all die, and then a really junior under secretary of somthing or another becomes US president, no-one has realised that if a bomb or something destroyed the RF (and of course I don't want that, despite being a republican) the ones who would be absent would of course be and/or Harry and Andrew.

It did cross my mind that they should keep an eye on Andrew- could he be feeling suicidal?

I don't pretend to know, @OneFunBrickNewt, but had to smile at a PP's suggestion last week that, in more gracious days, such a man would have "retired to his study with a supply of whisky and a shotgun and done the decent thing"

I'm the very last to actively wish someone dead, but it did occur to me they'd first have to know what "the decent thing" was, and I'm not sure that would apply to Andrew