So William is taking control of Palace response to Andrew scandal

[ShenandoahRiver]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-andrew-royal-lodge-virginia-giuffre-latest-news-b2850570.html

@BemusedAmerican
Yes - it is absolutely appalling and frightening how democracy and the right to justice is being eroded right in front of us.

I don't see any evidence that being a Republic would leave us in a better position. The problem that needs addressing is the corrupting influence of power and money and the way the powerful dodge consequences. Andrew is the only Epstein client who has faced any consequences at all so currently the evidence is that a constitutional monarchy does not protect its family members whereas a President cannot be held to account at all.

For many, the argument for a Republic is not that we would be better off - it's a symbolic one, regarding the view that we live in a meritocracy. The view that we live in a meritocracy (which many in the UK believe) is at odds with having a RF.

That's a different point than the one I was replying to.

If people believe that removing the monarchy would lead to a meritocracy then they need to advance that argument separate from events. I don't actually see evidence that any system currently in place anywhere in the world is a meritocracy. I do agree though that it would be lovely.

Oh I agree with you on there being no system in the world that is truly a meritocracy.

But I would argue that the symbolism of having a RF makes trying to create a meritocracy impossible - as it is at odds with it. Removing the RF would be a step in the right direction, but it certainly would not result in a meritocracy on it's own.

I think the events that have unfolded have resulted in many people questioning the existence the RF in modern day UK, therefore, what we are seeing is damage limitation from 'the Firm' to try and prevent this wider discussion.

I'm not sure. I don't think this scandal is cutting through sufficiently to lead enough people to decide that this is a more important political issue than the cost of living crisis, immigration, the NHS etc etc. Partly i think negate outside boards like this very few People I interact with bring up the monarchy at all. It's a niche subject at a time when most are worried about their bills. Plus, egregious as Andrew is, this isn't a new scandal, it is simply proof of an old one. No one thought Andrew was honourable or decent anyway so not much has changed.

on a side note though, I do wonder whether the argument about a meritocracy would get more traction if Trump wasn't President. Let's give it five years and see how the landscape changes.

Complete aside.

Why does my phone always type negate for because?

I don’t believe that removing the monarchy would lead to a meritocracy. I do believe that the monarchy enshrines deference, which makes any movement towards a meritocratic society impossible.

Yes it could be an interesting watch... especially if anything else comes out of the Epstein files that have yet to be released.

negate for because is funny especially as they look nothing alike!!😂

It is really odd that the only people (outside Epstein) who have had any consequences are English. The Land of the Free seems to be less about justice for all than a kingdom at the moment.

And i never type negate!

Whilst I remain a constitutional monarchist I would welcome less deference in government circles, for a start. It's ridiculous that Airmiles Andy was allowed to carry on for so long and that no one can research why. If politicians aren't going to stand their ground and use their powers we might as well have an absolute monarch. (Not in any way suggesting that's a good thing).

Agree my guess is that the remaining files have not been released because Trump and his friends are all over them... Interesting how it seems once Trump had fallen out with Elon Musk files were release showing his connections to Epstein..

Maybe if you start typing negate it will come out because!!

Andrew needs to face a permanent stripping of any and all titles. He and his ghastly complicit wife should be evicted from royal lodge and Mr Windsor then needs to face the full weight of the law in relation to his alleged involvement and complicity in Epsteins crimes. The response from Charles and his family needs to have been much more forceful. Public anger on this is quite rightly not going to go away

Everyone has a tipping point, and I think William’s has come on two fronts; his brother cosying back up to KC3 and the York’s despicable behaviour outside the DoK’s funeral. Perhaps William is late to the party on Plan Get Shot of Andrew, but if he’s serious about it then let him get cracking I say.

Surely the answer to that question depends on what the government minister did, whether it was legal/ treasonous/ immoral.

He mightbalso be.smart enough to see that the current funding model for.the monarchy fails all but the monarch and.the heir. It was put in place in the 1700s, when the children of the monarch would get married off to rich aristos, so wouldn't need funding beyond marriage.

It is out of date now, and needs reforming (along with the slimming down of the RF) so that the "spare" children get a share of the family cash from a trust fund and are encouraged to go off and pursue their own lives.

Also true @Rhaidimiddim

In William’s shoes I would be looking 20, 30, 40 years down the line to the future of his own children. As he has said recently, Catherine’s and his father’s illness, and the death of TLQ have changed him.

Whether he likes Harry’s claims or not, I imagine he would do everything possible to avoid that bitterness and lifetime of not quite best as for Charlotte and Louis.

If dobbing off Uncle Andy is the first of his steps, good for him and good for us.

A Republic would leave us in a far better position in regards to transparency, accountability and sheer competence in a HoS.

A HoS deemed to be failing on any or all of those can be kicked into touch either at any point during their term or at a fixed point in the election cycle.

At the moment we're permanently stuck with rather uninspiring brigands.

It's easy to say that but from a cursory look around the world I don't see many systems that are reigning in Heads of State. I don't think our system is perfect but I can't see a better one at this moment. If we get to the point that there is a serious attempt to bring in a Republic I'd want to see extremely effective checks and balances to ensure we don't end up in a worse situation than we are now. One thing Trump and Boris, and Andrew come to that, have shown us is that we can't rely on those with power to behave with honour.

Not just "dobbing off" but learning why his uncle ( and Harry?) turned out like he did, and why he ended up in the company he did. Then doing what he can to make sure his two younger children can avoid that fate.

If we get to the point that there is a serious attempt to bring in a Republic I'd want to see extremely effective checks and balances

I agree entirely and if such balances were exigent now on our unelected HoS so much the better. But they aren't so we'd have to start somewhere.

Getting rid of the corrupt, venal and - crucially - unelected and currently irremovable Windsors even as an interim step has merit IMO.

When was he talking and laughing with him ?

There is a Congressional Committee looking into all things Epstein and they have said they would like to talk to Andrew and see what he has to say and what he might have observed.

Seeing as William is ‘on it’ (which I take to mean is he is addressing this) perhaps he could point Andrew in that direction in order to clear his (Andrew’s) name.

My phone plays similar autocorrect tricks. I find I can correct a word, and then between doing that and posting, it will somehow switch back to the wrong word. The phone is only a few months old and it’s driving me bonkers.

Andrew's past and his shady dealings keep coming to light from his past, and his ex-wife are apparently in negotiations with C to seek out another residence because W is looking to send Camilla to the RL to live out her days after he passes so he and his family moves in and takes over. Andrew knows if he waits for W to negotiate with him, he'll be on the losing end. They're just trying to look out for Beatrice and Eugenie in the negotiations so they don't lose their residences in St James’s Palace and Kensington Palace, as well as keep their titles intact. Why H is also trying to negotiate his family's place with C before W goes all scorched earth after the funeral.