What about Beatrice & Eugenie?

[olderandnonthewiser]

I’m not sure what to think tbh. On one hand they must be so so mortified; on the other they enjoy all the perks of Royalty and their position in the RF despite their revolting father.

How do you see it?

Google might know.

What about the rationale that she could help him gaslight the world by disparaging the trafficked teenage victim of his multiple rapes so that the gravy train continued for her?

Well I guess you could if you were really jaded and cynical.

There has never been anything in Beatrice’s conduct to suggest she would disparage a
victim of trafficking or that she believed her father to be guilty of such conduct. She is a relatively young woman. She has a sister and she has two daughters. She has never done or said anything to suggest she isn’t a decent woman.

Sorry but I am not buying it!

There is nothing in Beatrice's conduct to sugggest that she wouldn't disparage a victim of trafficking. She is intensely loyal to her father and her mother, even though their behaviour and conduct over the years has been nothing short of shocking.

I don't think that there is actually any member of the Royal Family who doesn't believe that they are superior to their non-royal subjects. They all believe in the 'divine right of kings'.

Andrew Lownie, the author of 'Entitled', the book about Prince Andrew and Sarah Ferguson, has said that there have been accusations of snobbery by Andrew's daughters.

His book claims that at one event, focused on outreach with local authority schools, there was a plan to invite some children to the royal box.

'One of Andrew’s daughters objected and requested that she only be joined by "the sort of people who shop at John Lewis".

She was heavily involved in the planning of the Newsnight interview. That interview has pretty much unravelled and is seen for the tissue of lies it actually was. What aren't you buying ?

She has never done or said anything to suggest she isn’t a decent woman.

She went with Sarah and Eugenie to see Epstein after his release from prison.

Even if she was a young adult and didn't understand the magnitude (which I don't buy but can see that some might) now as someone in her late thirties with two daughters of her own she certainly should see it. But she has not apologised for that past association or condemned his crimes, not even through one of those famous "sources" the royals seem to have. This is what I would expect from a decent person.

Although I am far from a republican I do agree with you to a degree. The posts that make me eye roll are the ones where someone is outraged that a HRH is being criticised by us commoners.

I will criticise anyone whose behaviour I view as being wrong or immortal. Be they the late Queen down to the corgis and everyone in between. The only people except alin my book are children.

Agree. As has been said before, some posters have taken the view that at 17, VG was old enough to know what she was doing and was consenting - completely overlooking the fact that if she was trafficked consent is not possible. And yet are excusing Beatrice and Eugenie’s interactions with Epstein because they were young - despite the fact that they were considerably older than VG at the time.

I’m not “buying” that she is somehow complicit but then I don’t make allegations against people with no evidence!

I always gave Andrew the benefit of the doubt until evidence emerged. I am content with that position and I will continue in that vein. Integrity is very important to me.

We have no idea why they went to see Epstein but their mother was very much to blame. We all do bloody stupid things as young people that we wouldn’t do with more life experience.

And who the hell expects her to do a statement? Why would she? It’s not the RF’s way. She’s not a person of influence. This is still her mother and father and whatever they believed or didn’t believe, they must be going through hell right now! And remember the father they love is still denying it all. They must be so torn. I have compassion for them. They are also now, rightly or wrongly, being accused and drawn in too.

I will always stick with ‘innocent until proven guilty’ until my last breath.

Some may. It’s not a stance I have ever taken.

I have wondered why she didn’t try to extricate herself but the book apparently states that Epstein threatened her little brother and said he owned the police department - he probably did too.

Where are these posts?

Same as you on the criticism. It totally goes against the grain for me to criticise the late Queen but I will if there is evidence for it. I do think she totally failed to deal with Andrew , no matter how much she knew, and I am sad that it’s tainting her legacy.

There's been a few, including one the other day that made accusations of people having an anti royal agenda. I can only speak for myself when I say that is totally not the case and I try to be balanced and fair in what I post (and hopefully sometimes I even manage it 😆).

It was me who said about the statement. Obviously she doesn't have to and nobody can make her but I just think if it were me with my name being put in the paper linked supportively to Epstein then I'd be wanting to put something out there to make it explicitly clear that is no longer the case. Otherwise people are going to rightly or wrongly reach for their own conclusions.

John Lewis is “only” middle class though—hardly aristocratic!

I think point being that’s the lowest she was prepared to sink to & tolerate.

I can’t see any of them making a statement, at this point anyway.

I read that Beatrice was attending a “family summit” on Monday but Eugenie didn’t go. It’s also been reported that Anne is worried about Andrew’s mental health. I almost… almost feel the teeniest smidgeon of sympathy for him now, as he’s getting a well deserved massive kicking now, yet so many players are undetected!

I feel no sympathy for him.

Epstein received a prison sentence when he was convicted in 2008 (I think it was). Not only has it been reported that he was charged with a much lesser crime than he could have been, he essentially only slept at the jail and went to his office each day - where he continued to abuse young girls. The police knew. How could they not? The people who worked for him surely knew? Someone was still procuring for him obviously. Those girls would have felt, and been, completely unprotected.

I almost… almost feel the teeniest smidgeon of sympathy for him now, as he’s getting a well deserved massive kicking now

Might help to regard it as decades' worth of pigeons coming home to roost.

But I want the other guilty parties’ pigeons to come home to roost too!

It does feel like a bit of a witch hunt where he carries the can and so many others seem to be off the hook?

It’s not a ‘witch hunt’ as witch hunts are when people go after the powerless for imagined crimes and such. Much like the sexually abused victims of Epstein and co were, and still are, witch hunted.

Agree. It’s no different from when the Rotherham trafficking of children was exposed - criminal charges started in single figures - have to start somewhere and hopefully will continue.

I see divorce in their futures. Their rich husbands won’t stick around

Well, maybe this will teach them all about consequences. They all enabled the Yorks. They clearly knew what he was like. Although to his credit apparently Charles raised concerns about the trade envoy thing so knew what he'd be up to, but was ignored. Presumably the only person who would ignore him would be his mother.

Was an interesting article in the DM yesterday about the girls and their finances. I know someone on here suggested that Beatrice is v successful career wise but my cursory googling couldn't find much evidence of that. The DM article seemed to suggest she wasn't making much money via her own business.

It also said they had houses provided by the RF and more clarity was needed as to what if any rent they paid and that their finances should be subject to an 'ethics' check.

I would be very surprised if they weren't involved in some murkiness over the years and if Andrew and Sarah had any sense they would be quietly doing as they are told to avoid too much investigating into their daughter's finances.

PA was done up like a kipper by JE, along with several other high profile men - probably for future blackmail opportunities.
I too almost feel the teeniest smidgeon of sympathy for him. Coming down of his high horse, apologising for his part in things (without necessarily admitting any guilt) and asking how he can help the enquiry/the girls who were trafficked would do wonders for his image and his future in the UK.