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The royal family

What about Beatrice & Eugenie?

723 replies

olderandnonthewiser · 19/10/2025 23:26

I’m not sure what to think tbh. On one hand they must be so so mortified; on the other they enjoy all the perks of Royalty and their position in the RF despite their revolting father.

How do you see it?

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13
Calliopespa · 20/10/2025 12:35

DelectableMe · 20/10/2025 12:32

How horrific for you, @MrsSlocombesCat . You did the right thing, though 💐

Why would you see that as "horrific" for @MrsSlocombesCat but only have disdain for B and E when you believe similar has happened to them?

(It was horrific for you @MrsSlocombesCat ; I am not arguing that)

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 20/10/2025 12:38

Calliopespa · 20/10/2025 12:35

Why would you see that as "horrific" for @MrsSlocombesCat but only have disdain for B and E when you believe similar has happened to them?

(It was horrific for you @MrsSlocombesCat ; I am not arguing that)

I feel the same as @DelectableMe and my reason is because MSC has said she was quite rightly horrified by what her father has done.

B&E are displaying no such behaviour.

Calliopespa · 20/10/2025 12:38

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 20/10/2025 12:38

I feel the same as @DelectableMe and my reason is because MSC has said she was quite rightly horrified by what her father has done.

B&E are displaying no such behaviour.

We don't know how things will play out yet.

ColdLittleHeart · 20/10/2025 12:39

It’s simply greed. They benefited hugely and still do from their father’s business contacts. They wanted and expected a certain way of life so they turned a blind eye to all of it. They could be excused when they were children but certainly not as they reached adulthood. Their silence speaks volumes.

Rosscameasdoody · 20/10/2025 12:40

upinaballoon · 20/10/2025 11:42

My question wasn't whether she told an interviewer or similar, or whether she had ever said that she told the blokes that she wasn't willing. I don't suppose she did because I expect she'd have been in trouble for that.

I'm not being combative. I think VG made a statement many years ago and I think it was broadcast on a Sunday morning Radio 4 programme after the Maitliss interview. I mean the statement had been made years before the Maitliss interview. I think VG said that Andrew wasn't horrible or anything and when they'd finished he said, "Thank you" and went out of the room.

Really I'm de-railing but for several years, when pps have said there should be criminal charges brought, others have said that it would have only been he said/she said and there wouldn't have been any reasonable hope of a prosecution, I have wondered what the lawyers for each side would have brought up.

I've got to give up Mumsnet. It takes too much time.

VG also maintained that she’d been trafficked. If that were proven to be the case, whether she gave consent at the time she had sex with Andrew or anyone else offered by Epstein would be irrelevant because she would legally be incapable of giving consent. It would be rape/sexual assault.

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 20/10/2025 12:41

Calliopespa · 20/10/2025 12:38

We don't know how things will play out yet.

As soon as they put a statement out apologising for knowingly associating with a convicted pedophile and condemning the actions of their parents then I may well feel better disposed towards them.

They've only had six years though so hopefully it won't be long now...

PrincessofWells · 20/10/2025 12:41

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 20/10/2025 12:38

I feel the same as @DelectableMe and my reason is because MSC has said she was quite rightly horrified by what her father has done.

B&E are displaying no such behaviour.

You have no idea how B & E have responded, what they've said to their father, or whether their relationship with him has been damaged. Possibly because they don't see their relationship with their father as anyone else's business, and I'm inclined to agree with them.

Rosscameasdoody · 20/10/2025 12:42

Imdunfer · 20/10/2025 12:18

None of those are paedophilia and yes i know about them.

Paedophilia is sex with children, not sex with already sexually active amd physically mature 17 year olds over the legal age to marry.

Nobody is saying what happened between Andrew and Virginia was right but it wasn't paedophilia.

Edited

If she was indeed trafficked by Epstein it was rape.

lifeonmars100 · 20/10/2025 12:43

Imdunfer · 20/10/2025 12:18

None of those are paedophilia and yes i know about them.

Paedophilia is sex with children, not sex with already sexually active amd physically mature 17 year olds over the legal age to marry.

Nobody is saying what happened between Andrew and Virginia was right but it wasn't paedophilia.

Edited

Where have I used the word "paedophilia"? I was talking about sexual abuse and the imbalance in power that is one of the components which enables that abuse to happen.

Rosscameasdoody · 20/10/2025 12:43

DelectableMe · 20/10/2025 11:37

If he didn't know, then he's not only on a spectacular level of entitlement, but questions should be asked about his treatment of other girls and women throughout his life eg when serving in the Navy.
"I didn't know" is no excuse.

Agree.

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 20/10/2025 12:45

PrincessofWells · 20/10/2025 12:41

You have no idea how B & E have responded, what they've said to their father, or whether their relationship with him has been damaged. Possibly because they don't see their relationship with their father as anyone else's business, and I'm inclined to agree with them.

Well considering they were also quite happy to be around JE I can't think they've said much other than "poor you daddy, everyone's being soooo mean".

Futurehappiness · 20/10/2025 12:55

I feel a little for B&E as it can't be nice for them to have their parents so publicly vilified, no matter how richly deserved it is.

But then I think of the other young women whose vulnerability was exploited and the life limiting trauma they suffered at the hands of their parents' close friends, and I remember who the actual victims are.

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 20/10/2025 12:57

lifeonmars100 · 20/10/2025 10:49

Are you for real? Do you have no understanding about abuse, grooming, trafficking, power imbalance, and the vulnerability of very young women enmeshed in a world of predatory and perverted adults. Any decent man especially one who was aged 41 and a father of two girls of a similar age would be repulsed by being offered a 17 year old girl to use for sexual gratification.

I absolutely 100% agree. that does not make him a pedophile (which many posters are claiming) seeing as the victim was not a child/had already undergone puberty. But people can be predatory and abusive without being pedophiles. It’s important to remember that.

I don’t envy Beatrice or Eugenie when it comes to their parents. They were apparently introduced to Epstein as children (pre-teens) and many of us have blind spots for the people we associate with “lovely” childhood memories. I also have some sympathy for young women (18-24 ish?) believing what their parents told them. Especially women that must have grown up in a very unusual bubble.

(I’m not denying that they’re massively privileged. But coming to terms with their parents’ massive failures? I’m not envious.)

LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta · 20/10/2025 12:59

sesquipedalian · 20/10/2025 08:44

For heaven’s sake - Prince Andrew has never been found guilty in court. He is assuredly guilty of a massive lack of judgement, but he is not a criminal. He is not a paedophile, either - she was 17, so well over the age of consent in this country. She says he slept with him three times: he denies it. Let us not forget that Giuffre sued Alan Dershowitz in 2019 alleging he defamed her when he denied her claims and suggested she and her lawyers were trying to extort money from others - and she had to drop the allegations, saying she “may have made a mistake”. As for the Maitlis interview, I read that Princess Beatrice begged him not to do it, but Andrew thought he knew better. He is a fool, but that doesn’t make him a criminal.

This is absolutely disgusting.

"massive lack in judgement"??!!! jfc

He's a criminal. And even some of the other comments on this thread - while much better intended than this one - calling PA "clueless" and "thick as shit" are also giving PA an out.

He knew what he was doing. This is absolutely clear from the email he sent to Epstein on February 28, 2011, the day after the photo of PA with Virginia Giuffre was published. He wrote: "It would seem we are in this together and will have to rise above it. Otherwise keep in close touch and we’ll play some more soon!!!!"

"Play more soon". It's absolutely CLEAR what that means. It means "fuck more young girls soon." There is no ambiguity there. EVERYTHING Epstein did was to get access to young girls and to use those girls to find other disgusting perverts who would "play" with him. Anyone who looks at that revolting birthday book knows exactly what kind of guy Epstein was, and that's the type of person PA is too.

Banjaxxedd · 20/10/2025 12:59

Imdunfer · 20/10/2025 12:18

None of those are paedophilia and yes i know about them.

Paedophilia is sex with children, not sex with already sexually active amd physically mature 17 year olds over the legal age to marry.

Nobody is saying what happened between Andrew and Virginia was right but it wasn't paedophilia.

Edited

No but it was rape - which is the crime when someone has sex with a trafficked person - whether they are 17 or 77.

He has committed the crime of rape - specifically of a 17 year old who has been sexually coerced, groomed, sexually exploited and raped at least 3 times by PA.

Your paedo definition obsession is a rapist apologist attempt to derail the thread.

We see you.

Banjaxxedd · 20/10/2025 13:04

Imdunfer · 20/10/2025 12:23

An abuser if he knew she was trafficked.

But not a paedophile.

That term needs reserving for people who have sex with children. She was not a child in anything but a legal "not yet an adult" sense. It devalues the vile behaviour of paedophiles to call a man having sex with an apparently willing 17 year old a paedophile.

No a rapist is what he would be charged with if brought to court for having sex with trafficked person.

Don’t devalue the vile behaviour of rapists by attempt to minimise it to ‘abuse’.

Vile behaviour.

MauriceTheMussel · 20/10/2025 13:09

ishimbob · 20/10/2025 12:57

We really have no idea how B and E felt about that meeting with Epstein

You could also say that William and Kate look pretty happy to be in the same car as Andrew and show support for him in 2023..

https://people.com/kate-middleton-prince-william-prince-andrew-drive-church-balmoral-7853385#:~:text=Prince%20Andrew%20Joins%20Kate%20Middleton,for%20the%20car%20ride%20after.

I’ve found this a good point.

I was incensed thinking B&E know just as well as we all do what their father (and scummy but not wholly unlawful mother) is, and that they should cut ties and make a show of it, but actually, what the fuck are the rest of them playing at?!

Fine, the whole RF shunning them publicly
or issuing a statement unless PA is found guilty can’t happen, but Jesus. Read the fucking room and £12m pay out. Don’t invite him or Fergie to ANYTHING. Don’t be photographed together.

ishimbob · 20/10/2025 13:16

@MauriceTheMussel Also ABC were threatened with loss of access to William and Kate by the palace if they aired an interview with VG

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/virginia-giuffre-amy-robach-abc-prince-princess-of-wales-b2848461.html

Hard to believe William and Kate weren't complicit in that, however much William is now briefing that he is behind harder line attitude to Andrew. He only did it when he had to.

I have more sympathy for B and E than the rest of them TBH tho obviously not as much as I do for the victims of Epstein.

ABC feared losing William and Kate access if Giuffre sit-down aired – memoir

Virginia Giuffre claimed network anchor Amy Robach was heard expressing her frustrations on a ‘hot mic’ following the 2019 interview.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/virginia-giuffre-amy-robach-abc-prince-princess-of-wales-b2848461.html

EverybodyLTB · 20/10/2025 13:27

I’ll just refer again to my last post for all the apologisers and the ‘poor girls’ narrative. Beatrice was given 750k not too long ago, by a shady Turkish businesswoman, which only came to light at a High Court fraud case. This money was then examined away as “payment to Prince Andrew for obtaining them a British passport”. Daddy somehow gets foreign dodgy dealers a British passport and it nets Bea 750 grand!! They are not innocent little girls. They’re all in it together.

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 20/10/2025 13:31

ishimbob · 20/10/2025 13:16

@MauriceTheMussel Also ABC were threatened with loss of access to William and Kate by the palace if they aired an interview with VG

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/virginia-giuffre-amy-robach-abc-prince-princess-of-wales-b2848461.html

Hard to believe William and Kate weren't complicit in that, however much William is now briefing that he is behind harder line attitude to Andrew. He only did it when he had to.

I have more sympathy for B and E than the rest of them TBH tho obviously not as much as I do for the victims of Epstein.

I'm sure you are right about the VG interview. Nothing can be allowed to tarnish the brand after all.

I honestly don't hold B&E accountable for their parents and I would have a lot more sympathy for them IF they themselves as adults hadn't chosen to accossiate with their Uncle Jeffery.

Euphemis · 20/10/2025 13:34

Still feel a bit sorry for them, but they must clearly see how how warped their parents actions and views are - even if they didn't before. From now on they will need to make sure their actions reflect their morals and integrity as anything slightly dodgy they do now cannot be passed off as 'fleas' from parents any longer now they are 35/37 and have had to live through all these scandals.

Growing up with dysfunctional immature parents does warp your view and it isn't necessarily something that you will fully start to see until you are well out of the young adult years.

It is time that prince/princess titles were restricted to the children of monarchs and heir apparents. Princess Anne, and to a lesser extent (due to the lady/earl titles) Prince Edward not using these titles for their children has made it a bit ridiculous and grandiose that Prince Andrew and Prince Harry (especially Prince Harry due to being a generation on and stepping back from the Royal family well before his father became King) still do. Probably need to change that formally - especially now we have absolute primogeniture so have modernised there.

TightlyLacedCorset · 20/10/2025 13:49

Zonder · 20/10/2025 07:07

Interesting that Eugenie is involved with an anti slavery charity given all that's been said about Virgini Giuffre being a sex slave for Andrew. Eugenie must be mortified - I hope.

No.

I used to follow her Instagram. One day she put up a picture of her dad on, if I remember correctly, his birthday with a gushing happy birthday message (or it might have been father's day). This was after the Maitless interview and he was dodging subpoenas by Giuffre's lawyers with the help of his staff.
It went down like a lead balloon. A lot of arguing in the comment section both in support of Andrew and against.

The whole thing was tone deaf. She was involved in her anti-sex slavery charity at the time (and Andrew had previously been associated with the NSPCC, so I wonder if it is even possible for people so insulated to truly understand such causes and the devastation to the victims such charities represent and perhaps there ought to be questions about the appropriateness of some of these charities having Royal patrons who are so very far removed from the smallest challenges faced by such). Clearly she didn't believe the charges and went out of her way to put up that post to signal support.

Since then other things have come out and I wonder if she feels the same way. However I will say in their defence, and to a small degree Andrews, that I was watching one of Lady Collin Campbells videos on Andrew, supposedly an apology (which was why I engaged at all) and her attitude regarding the whole debacle was quite something. To my mind it was like something from the Victorian era. It gave me a small inkling of sympathy in that, if these are representative of the general attitude among people of the aristocratic class, then Andrew's seeming sense of entitlement to young women's bodies (whom likely appeared to be gaining in his view, by association to him) may be somewhat understandable in it's etiology.

Let's not pretend class doesn't play a huge part in how worthy a person is perceived in this country and sense of entitlement of others. Even in this thread, you see the bias where Virginia, a mere year past the legal age for sex and with a history of sexual exploitation going back to when she was even younger is framed as a happy hooker and the princesses are innocent doves compliantly doing what their mother says and meeting Epstein with no understanding or agency at all.

This entire thing has shone a giant mirror into how some in the upper echelons of society think about those beneath them, how women from disadvantaged backgrounds are framed as fit for exploitation, how deeply ingrained sexism and yes (I would call it rape culture at this point) and how the Royal family has lost touch with ordinary citizens.

Cynic17 · 20/10/2025 13:49

NomoneyNoprospects · 20/10/2025 09:02

I feel sorry for them. Imagine having not one but two parents that horrifically awful.

Even before the Epstein stuff Fergie and both girls were publicly mocked and fat shamed in the press. Imagine your MUM being photographed topless and having her toes sucked. Now their dad has been outed as a paedophile as well. How many of us would choose those parents? I'm surprised the pair of them are as normal as they are tbh.

There are many charges we could levy against Andrew, but "paedophile" is not one of them. I am yet to see any suggestion of this, let alone evidence.
Accuracy is important.

EverybodyLTB · 20/10/2025 13:50

ishimbob · 20/10/2025 12:57

We really have no idea how B and E felt about that meeting with Epstein

You could also say that William and Kate look pretty happy to be in the same car as Andrew and show support for him in 2023..

https://people.com/kate-middleton-prince-william-prince-andrew-drive-church-balmoral-7853385#:~:text=Prince%20Andrew%20Joins%20Kate%20Middleton,for%20the%20car%20ride%20after.

You could say they seem happy enough, and I do say it. I think the entire family are rotten to the core and are in it for their own self interests and have no morals. Beatrice, Eugenie, William, Harry, just different flavours of the same dish. All will turn a blind eye to whatever suits them and they won’t be told by public outcry that their behaviour needs changing.

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