Andrew to lose Duke of York title

[Flixon]

News banner from the Torygraph saying Andrew and Sarah are losing their titles. They will be ‘put into Abeyance’ Andrew also to lose the Order of the Garter. Sarah will be known as Sarah Ferguson, he retains ‘Prince’ as he is the son of HM QE2.

bloody good job !

He's sleazy, but he is not a criminal. He had sex with an apparently willing 17 year old when he was forty something. This is not outlandish nor particularly surprising - both parties are having a sex fantasy enacted, in fact (for some young women sex with an older and powerful man is a turn on - hence the proliferation of romantic novels with just that theme). That Guiffre later regretted this (and her other occupations whilst under Epstein's protection) and became traumatized by her memories is sad and I am so sorry that she died - but her regrets don't make Andrew a criminal (though maybe it should).
The real problem is that he continued to correspond in a matey way with a man accused of paedophilia, and so did his (ex)wife. That's the scandal. He could have never gone near any of Epstein's 'young ladies of refinement' and he would still be in deep water for his correspondence.
He won't use the title Duke of York (no sign that HMK has decided on the nuclear option of having the letters patent cancelled) and he cannot be deprived of the fact he is a prince of the blood (afaik - and I don't know how we could do it).
He should go away and sin no more - and with any luck that's what he and Sarah will do.
The real horror is that young girls are trafficked, that they are persuaded into playing up to men's fantasy and are prostituted - and with the current sex positive, sex work is work attitudes that is not going to stop.
Prostitution is exploitation and paid for rape. That Guiffre eventually recognised what had been done to her (and she had helped have done to other young women) is both her own epiphany (and I trust she was filled with remorse, too) and an indictment of our attitude to sex - that it is somehow a right and that anything goes. It's not and it doesn't.

He is still a Prince. That will never change.

He's sleazy, but he is not a criminal. He had sex with an apparently willing 17 year old when he was forty something. This is not outlandish nor particularly surprising - both parties are having a sex fantasy enacted, in fact (for some young women sex with an older and powerful man is a turn on - hence the proliferation of romantic novels with just that theme). That Guiffre later regretted this (and her other occupations whilst under Epstein's protection) and became traumatized by her memories is sad and I am so sorry that she died - but her regrets don't make Andrew a criminal.

This is appalling. Do you know anything, literally ANYTHING about trafficked individuals?
Why do you think Maxwell trawled Malls, trailer parks and school yards? She was looking for young vulnerable girls who had parents who either didn't care or were happy to use their children for money. Do you know anyone who has been homeless? Do you know anything about the depths they reach?
You think Guiffre was enacting a sex fantasy? FFS

No, he is not a convicted criminal but he was happy to cavort with girls not much older than his daughters and to carry on a friendship with a sex trafficker.

She was trafficked. Sex with a trafficked woman is rape.

He will always be the son of a Queen, but is there anything to stop people addressing him as Mr Windsor?

I keep hearing about how William is going to introduce all these wonderful reforms, he has hinted at it himself but not given any details about what these changes will be.

What I would like to see is proper transparency about the finances and accountability for RF members, as is mandatory for any other public institution or individual working within one. But I don't think it is ever going to happen, and I think the nature of the Monarchy is wholly incompatible with that kind of transparency. Many are pinning their hopes on William reforming things; but the indicators are not good. William is even more secretive than his father about finances; he has chosen not to disclose the tax he pays on his earnings (although his father did this for 30 years). Perhaps in preparation for the big pay rise the RF are due.

Andrew & Sarah have benefited from the secrecy which is standard around the RF. The public was shocked enough to learn what they are up to from Lownie's book; but I doubt they are the only offenders. Frankly I don't believe we will ever have full disclosure of the money or where it is going, because we would be so shocked we would recoil in horror at the abuses and want the whole monarchy gone.

This is true, Blossomtoes, but I think the PP was referring to the 2025/26 increase, which brings it to £132 million - and some of us are still waiting to see what happens in 2027 when the uplift for the BP renovations is supposed to end

Then again IMO Charles might need it, since allegations are ballooning and ensuring the silence of others may well prove expensive

Edited to add it's also true that Charles pays income tax ... voluntarily
Perhaps we should all give HMRC a cheap laugh and suggest that for ourselves

Great post.

Personally I think, yes, William will become more secretive and his aides and courtiers will become more adept at all the smoke and mirrors.
But I also think that some people are waking up and asking 'Why' and questioning the status quo more. Maybe one day the Erskine May handbook could be put in the long grass and questions can be asked in parliament - which they can't now.
If you have nobody, literally nobody, able to question you... you are going to push the boundaries unbelievably. And I think that's what they all do.

We know very little about what goes on.

agree , but for some reason posters don't see this.

The BBC etc. seem to be retaining their deference and baulk at the idea of calling him plain Andrew Windsor. For instance, in this article he is referred to throughout as "Prince" Andrew, which he is, so what is the point of "resting" the other titles? Few will notice or care that he won't dress up in the Garter stuff anymore, or be called Duke of York. Optics matter don't they?

www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3ep8gd1qv3o

I suppose it might affect his grifting a bit, but I would have thought that signing any begging letter with "Prince Andrew" would suffice for donations.

Optics were carefully planned and agreed, and we are being gaslit again I think as to the importance of this announcement.

Yeah he said come see me they didn't and even though im not a prince im not dumb enough to jet off into a country that clearly wants to arrest me rather than looking to their own shores that was the only legitimately smart thing he has done

They have not petition the UK government to send him over to them or made any real effort to see him here they were looking for a foreign high status person to distract from all there home grown perverts have they spoken to Clinton etc yet? Not really keep banging on about andrew while I dont believe he is innocent I think America has plenty to investigate closer to home then if they can get evidence try overseas

I just want to point out that Diana was a teenager when 33-y-o Charles was courting her.

Charles is off to see the Pope next week and I it is more than probable today's actions have been influenced by this. He would not want to have the shadow of Andrew's behavior being cast over a visit that will attract international interest

Too late I'm afraid, @lifeonmars100
In a choice between two old men praying together, Charless's maunderings about spirituality and whatever Viriginia's book contains, which do you expect the media will go for?

Two years older than VG.

'William is even more secretive than his father about finances; he has chosen not to disclose the tax he pays on his earnings (although his father did this for 30 years). Perhaps in preparation for the big pay rise the RF are due.'

The Sovereign Grant is used for official duties of the Royal Family and maintaining royal palaces.

I don't agree about Anne, I think the chances of her ever not being princess royal are nil, but if it was suggested I reckon she would fight it (quite rightly)
also although her children do not have titles, they use their royal connections to make money.

Maybe Harry went to visit his Da recently to point out that he is saintly compared to Uncle Andy.

When you think about it, the whole Andy situation makes H + M, despite their shenanigans look OK after all, and maybe this is all to do with a rapprochement eventually. Families bicker and bitch and moan, but paedophiles and the stuff in "Entitled" are just so bad as to make H + M look kind of normal.

They will be back!

Exactly! And the media and the public were sooooo not bothered by this.

I think they're grifters and merely surface level supporters of the good. (Like Oprah who on the surface does things but it's only PR and real help is not coming from there).

I wish Meghan would be more vocal about her progressive viewpoints, she is not constrained anymore. Go all in on women's rights!

I have to wonder what phycologists make of A - he had so much and so many opportunities to be a 'great guy' - but was not. Was he born like that, did his mother neglect him by being queen etc?? He still had every possibility to be a ''good character'' so why wasn't he? If it is all just ''in the blood'' what is the point of phycology etc. To sum up - all that privilege, chances etc and still such a rotter!

And yet not a word of criticism from H and M . Harry was quick to deny punching Andrew .
They seemed more bothered about Catherine being - allegedly- reluctant to share a lipgloss

Wonder why ?

I don't believe he is much of an outlier in the family though. The rest of them know they have to keep the plebs onside to keep the Monarchy going

I couldn't agree more, @RainbowBagels, and am still waiting for someone to tell me how - with his friendship for paedophiles, questions around charities and what he's sold, and his obsession with the middle east - he differs from his older brother

I've said it before and will say it again: no matter what embarrassment he causes (and we can't know whether the rest are embarrassed or simply annoyed that he was caught) Andrew's a damned useful lightning rod for the RF

This is so funny - what a desperado! How did you respond - did you wave back?

I had forgotten about Diana's age.... it turns my stomach

Two fingers up would be more appropriate