I have pre-ordered Andrew Lownie's Book (out I think 14th August) A thread for those interested in "Entitled"

[BasiliskStare]

So for those interested in this book about the Yorks. I will read it and interested to hear from others who have or to give an opinion.

No spitting , no gouging 😂

The father is almost certainly dead now so can’t face charges. Those poor children.

That is appalling

I have just this minute read this on here. It is beyond horrific!

I think that was not unknown in certain circles in the past.
Not at that age though.
Usually 14 to 16 ish.

It reminds me of what earl Spemcer has written about his time in prep school and being targeted by the under matron.

Thanks for taking one for the team

I am not excusing PA's behaviour with Epstein or using SEND as any justification.

But from what I have read so far - I do think Andrew has autistic traits. He seems to have trouble interacting with other people, obsessive behaviours - with his cuddly toys being in the right order and endlessly watching golf videos.

That and being spoiled rotten, no parental boundaries and farmed out to boarding school v young - is it any wonder he's turned out like this?

It just struck me too as I was reading the latest posts on this thread @twilightcafe

@twilightcafe and deahgwitch

(sheepishly) Yes, me too. I know it’s rightly frowned on to ‘diagnose’ people but his being a good pilot and yet lacking connection with people struck me, among other things.

One of mine has ASD so it’s not totally unfamiliar territory.

I think everyone on this thread is horrified by PA’s conduct as an adult but I hope that some kind of glimmer of an explanation (not in any sense an excuse) might come to light from his unbelievable childhood experiences. What lesson did the parent who is supposed to have organised the prostitute think they were inculcating? Objectifying women?

When I think of my son at age 11, I know it would have traumatised him.

It’s difficult. Obviously if it’s true about what happened to Andrew it’s shocking. This doesn't make it any better, of course, but it wasn’t uncommon at the time. I actually know men it happened to-usually at around 14, though. I talked to a friend about it last week, and he said that one of the reasons was to introduce boys to heterosexual sex-many of them had already been “introduced” to homosexual sex by older boys. God, it’s grim, isn’t it?

The interesting thing here is that the DM extracts didn't even seem to touch on A's misuse of his Pitch @ Palace nonsense.

IIRC there were clauses relating to giving him a 2% cut from winner's profits, it fell foul of charity regulations in respect of making payment to a trustee, he seems to have been hawking contacts accrued through it around, questionable Chinese contacts, use of CE property. The list just goes on.

Birds of an uncharitable feather comes very much to mind.

ETA I do very much hope the book goes into this. It would be a big omission otherwise.

There is also a scene when he returns to Gordonstoun and visits his old house. He annoys the master who shows him around by only talking about how the smell is the same and not remininiscing about people, events, etc.

TBF I went back to school once (reunion) and while the scents were very evocative it also brought back those massive teenage insecurities I'd handily forgotten. Never again despite some quite pressing invites.

Plenty to condemn the oaf about but not this.

If this appalling allegation is true A at the time was literally The Spare.

Where TF were the advisors? Where TF was all that top notch security we've been paying for year in, year out?

Utterly shocking.

CoffeeCantata · Today 19:57
^^
and deahgwitch
(sheepishly) Yes, me too. I know it’s rightly frowned on to ‘diagnose’ people but his being a good pilot and yet lacking connection with people struck me, among other things.
One of mine has ASD so it’s not totally unfamiliar territory.

One of mine has ASD too and imh and totally untrained opinion, PA’s behaviour could also possibly be explained by traumatic SA as a child.

It could also explain why he was stuck permanently in fight or bullying mode v flight or being holed up in his bedroom mode.

Undergoing sexual trauma as a child can, as I understand it, hinder and negatively effect brain development, at least I am aware of research in that area relating to young women.

Not that it excuses him being a sex pest and abuser as not all people who were abused, go on to abuse themselves. But it does give some possible context for his appalling behaviour.

Yes, agree, I hope so.

I’m very interested in the P & P stuff too!

And as I mentioned on another thread, Lownie has stated on a tv interview that the late Queen allegedly received reports of PA’s corrupt behaviour as a trade envoy from politicians and diplomats and she didn’t want to know.

Even worse, Lownie said he received a report of an intelligence source who showed QEII evidence of PA taking bribes in his role as trade envoy and she ignored that too.

If true, that is truly shocking that the monarch covered up evidence of corruption and her son breaking the UK Bribery Act.

If true, this is serious stuff indeed with serious implications for the institution of the monarchy. Those hidden trade envoy papers really, really need to be published for clarity’s sake.

Just seen this, CurlewKate, and I got the ostrich thing from here: https://royalhats.net/2019/06/17/order-of-the-garter-2019/

Looks like they might have got it wrong, but never mind ... they make good eating (or at least the steak I had in Belgium did )

It’s sickening. They are literally children.

So as one of your resident mild constitutional monarchists - this book was a hard read for me. It hasn't broken me 😂But Oh my goodness was PA covered up for ( & I think still is)

@CathyorClaire Pitch@Palace and indeed Pitch@PalaceGlobal - important difference - I think is covered as far as AL could get information - so whilst you might not want to buy the book, getting on the library list I think you will think was worth the effort. Also to @Ploachedplorridge I think also also interested in P@P

I think the story about the father hiring an escort for 2 young boys is repellent. Now you could say O tempora O mores , but I'm not sure even then this was "normal behaviour" even amongst that circle at 11 (I'm about PA's age and know a fair few men from that sort of upbringing. And where were the security detail.? ) Andrew was the first it seems who grew up in IRA threat times ( my memory )

@CurlewKate I looked up the sexual experience at 8 for you in the notes - because I know you don't have those on audible - this was at prep school and people who didn't want to be named say similar and it was a female member of staff. Both these things I think are hideous. I'm not going to forgive PA the rest of his life for that ( Is that harsh? ) but for these 2 things I would not wish it on any child. I'm trying not to reproduce the book in any way because copyright , but my take . 😊

edited too many nots which changed sense.

That is horrible.

I was hoping that the 'experience' at the age of 8 would turn out to be some sort of childhood experimenting.

I'm horrified by both stories - and very uncomfortable that they are now in the public domain.

Setting aside any other thoughts about Andrew, no one deserves private information such as this to be made public.

I agree @bluegreygreen

I’m very uncomfortable about this being made public. Lownie has taken someone else’s very personal (and probably damaging) childhood experience and disclosed it to rhe public and then to add to that, he will be making money from it. I actually think that’s a really horrible thing to do to someone.

Got to the Epstein section. Charles worried that Andrew can't keep personal and royal separate. Andrew taking private planes and choppers every where, despite a commission finding he could fly commercial or take trains. Claims that diplomacy happens during his many golf games. People stating that Andrew does the opposite of his brief.

Both SF & PA are good at getting other people to pay for them.

One source comments that Andrew cannot function outside of a rigidly structured lifestyle. The Navy gave him.the necessary structure.

The money wasted by both of them is making me sick.

I agree and share your discomfort about this.

I suspect that AL thought that as he was writing a detailed book about Prince Andrew that included information about him allegedly abusing young vulnerable women; then it would be a major omission to leave out significant contextual information about him having allegedly suffered similarly as a very young child.

I’m not saying it’s morally right to disclose it in this way because it’s not his story to share.

However, as a serious journalist and author, if this information about Prince Andrew being allegedly abused as a child emerged later through a different route, and he hadn’t mentioned it in the book, Lownie could be accused of being biased against Prince Andrew by not disclosing it.

In other words Lownie could be accused of characterising PA as solely an alleged perpetrator when he was allegedly a victim too. So AL was forced to put the principles of factual accuracy and objectivity first.

@BemusedAmerican - I agree with you - the profligacy and the lack of checks and balances on PA's spending on transport etc is shocking.

Just to get back to his Trade Envoy Role - it seems to me that there was not a clear remit / chain of command within which he was meant to work. So I think there was confusion and who knew where to report him to. I think It was all befuddled. & this let him slip between the cracks to , for want of a better phrase , line his own pockets , go on jollies. He was a tax payer funded civil servant at this point and I had not realised the extent of the "grey areas" he exploited. . I'm cross about this. & about the ongoing befuddlement about trying to get to the bottom of what the tax payer was paying for and how did he use this to benefit himself and his wife and family. I think the FCO etc should be able to release documents about his trade envoy role. It won't be pretty , but , my opinion, better to lance the boil quickly.

However, as a serious journalist and author, if this information about Prince Andrew being allegedly abused as a child emerged later through a different route, and he hadn’t mentioned it in the book, Lownie could be accused of being biased against Prince Andrew by not disclosing it

It’s not his place to mention it (or anyone else's) full stop.

He has already shown his bias anyway by admitting he hated PA and used to give him a kicking in Rugby.

So AL was forced to put the principles of factual accuracy and objectivity first

Rubbish