I have pre-ordered Andrew Lownie's Book (out I think 14th August) A thread for those interested in "Entitled"

[BasiliskStare]

So for those interested in this book about the Yorks. I will read it and interested to hear from others who have or to give an opinion.

No spitting , no gouging 😂

@IAmATorturedPoet - I do see your point . But in the context of the whole book I personally think that a few sentences are OK ( and it is a few sentences out of 450 pages ) I also get your point abut AL hating Andrew when he was a schoolboy playing rugby - but I don't think AL has made a reputation writing well documented and researched biographies just to get his chance to get back at PA. I just don't. I think he has done a favour by revealing PA's egregious behaviour and how it was covered up. So I seriously do see your point about PA's privacy , but AL did approach BP / RF for comment. I think he's a good biographer , and not sleazy or looking for shock for the sake of it. But it does cast a different light , which means many may see PA in a different light as a result. Here's another example. AL was asked why he included PA making staff pick up soiled tissues from around his bed ( not from a cold) and AL said (I'm paraphrasing from a Times Interview here) it speaks to his attitude( towards "little people" my inference) Which is I don't need to worry about anyone else . Would the anecdote abut calling someone to draw the curtains have done instead - maybe.

You may not agree with me & I'm not saying you're wrong. If AL has erred too far so be it - but it might explain something to redress the balance. I know you post considered posts and I hope you will take this as such , even if disagreeing.

well, if she's with PA, she clearly doesn't care! He's got a title, innit?

. What lesson did the parent who is supposed to have organised the prostitute think they were inculcating?

Making sure that they turned to heterosexuality.

It does take me aback even now that homosexual acts were not decriminalised (England and Wales ) until 1967.

I digress.

Back to the point.

Thank you for your post @BasiliskStare and I appreciate that you, having read the book, have a more complete picture than I do. From what I am reading and hearing he seems to be everything that I thought he was which is an arrogant, entitled and generally very unpleasant man. However, at the moment I can’t get past Lownie taking someone else’s personal childhood experience (trauma?) and making it public knowledge without their consent (if he has PA consent then that’s a different matter but I suspect he hasn’t).

I am not saying that AL is right, I’m saying that Lownie will have thought about the ethical considerations at length, which have to be balanced with accuracy, context and leaving behind a fair historical record.

Agree with Basiliskstare that AL is not prone to including details for salacious reasons. He will have included this information I imagine because of its relevancy to the rest of the contents of the book.

If a biographer commits to the job seriously and is writing objectively in good faith, they can’t always decide to leave out significant parts of a subject’s life for privacy reasons if it’s highly relevant to the rest, not least because the full truth has a way of emerging eventually, even if it’s decades later.

As long as the author is prepared to take full accountability for what they have written of course, which AL has already said he is fully prepared to do.

Lastly, as Basiliskstare said, I think it’s fairer to judge the author on the basis of the balance throughout the entire book and not just one part of it. I haven’t read the whole thing yet but this article by a BBC journalist seems to be a very fair summary overall and backs the view of Basiliskstare that including this specific but very private alleged information does help to provide a more nuanced picture of PA without excusing his many, appalling wrongdoings.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c24z1l090dqo

BasiliskStare

May I ask, was the information about Lownie offering the manuscript for approval to PA, or his team, in the same Times article do you know?

If anyone has an archived copy I would be very interested to read it.

I can feel very sorry for Prince Andrew the little boy while abhoring (?) the man he’s become. I suspect his childhood trauma goes some way to explaining his adult years.

Quite. I think we all agree Andrew is/was an appalling human being.

But I was rabbiting on, on the first thread, about my bafflement that he seems so different from his siblings who , while of course they have their faults, are generally people who do good in the world. Yes, he was his mother’s favourite, but even so, I felt there must be another factor involved. I do think these experiences of sexual abuse when so young could have given him a warped attitude to sexual matters and to women in general. And as a few of us have said, the possibility of ASD in the mix might explain some of his otherwise inexplicable behaviour and difficulties connecting with others.

To be clear: iI detest him as much as anyone here, but I’m always fascinated by the backgrounds of people with nasty personalities. Just as historians and biographers have sought for an explanation for all monsters in history (not saying A is Stalin or Hitler, but you know what I mean).

I will agree with you and PA about the smell of a school. I remember thinking exactly that when I went into my old primary school.

@Ploachedplorridge

Here is the Times article

Archive link: Andrew Lownie Times interview

Thank you so much bluegreygreen!

Just to correct a detail I got wrong in my original post about this, the father took the two 11-year olds to a hotel in the West End and hired an escort to visit them there.

I agree , I loathe the man but this is no ones business but his.

Security what security? Similar time to Princess Anne's kidnap attempt in 1974. Andrew's experience must have been 1971/72.

AL has hinted on X that his next book will be about Prince Philip .

Lownie has taken someone else’s very personal (and probably damaging) childhood experience and disclosed it to rhe public and then to add to that, he will be making money from it. I actually think that’s a really horrible thing to do to someone

I couldn't agree more, @IAmATorturedPoet, especially when there seems no way of knowing if the allegation's true or not

With due thanks to all those "taking one for the team" by reading and sharing details, I think I'll leave this one - if I read it at all - until it's in the charity shops

Now that would be a good read, especially his childhood

My brother went to school with someone who is now a fairly prominent, pro-Trump politician. They played sports together and my brother really disliked the guy. For years he would describe the politician as a jerk whenever the guy was in the news.

I always thought my brother was being petty and unreasonable. I now think he was a good judge of character.

My brother went to school with someone who is now a fairly prominent, pro-Trump politician. They played sports together and my brother really disliked the guy. For years he would describe the politician as a jerk whenever the guy was in the news.

I always thought my brother was being petty and unreasonable. I now think he was a good judge of character.

Indeed however it’s scandal that sells books .

The details of the money raked in by the RF for the cabling for offshore wind farms is extraordinary. But it was a 24 hour wonder recently in the British press.

Now THAT would be an interesting read!

Poor sod was apparently sent to live with ‘Uncle Dickie’ at age 8 or 9 years, and to boarding school in term times (Cheam, same as KCIII) till age 13.

God knows what will come out about what he was inured to, tbh, between ‘home’ and exeats in that circle of people.

(For general interest: Andrew was at Heatherdown prep school, as was Edward, not Cheam. I don’t know where Anne went prior to Benenden.)

I think Anne was at home until Benenden.