The Yorks 2 !

[jeffgoldblum]

Sorry missed end of thread !
had a slight hiccup.
anyway thread 2 ready for tomorrows new article. 😁

I agree.

From following these threads I've started to listen to a podcast called 'When it hits the fan', about PR issues in the news (as I previously knew very little about PR). It's very interesting.

Going back to the book, I haven't read any interviews but my impression from here is that Andrew L isn't doing himself any favours. Serious people who can actually call for something to be done about the financial stuff may be put off by the muck raking. He doesn't come across a a shining light of ethics and considered commentary.

I distrust people who are strongly politically committed and affiliated. How can you be? No one party has all the answers and one size doesn’t fit all.

I’ve always been a floater 🤭 and proud of it! After all, the parties change enormously over time…usually in a cyclical way. And I’m cynical about politicians because in a democracy you have to get elected before you can do anything and there might be things which clearly need to be done that are never going to get you elected!

I love that podcast, it's so interesting, particularly when they disagree.

Going upthread a bit, I don't believe Harry has the influence necessary to block discussion of the book, Andrew and Epstein. I absolutely believe that Trump and the other powerful people who protected Epstein could though.

I am a strongly committed social democrat and constitutional monarchist which i think proves your point 😀

I agree!
I was hoping for full disclosure! , factual information presented in a factual way , not tawdry disclosures to titillate the masses.
anyone seriously looking into it are definitely going to side eye certain things, let’s hope by some miracle that the book is more measured.

Well put as usual, MrsLF, and this is precisely why I believed at the time that there was simply no way the general population would have him as PM - because while there'll always be a few tossers I'm convinced most folk are better than that

FWIW I've never met him (and don't envy you having done so, @OlympicWomen), but I've had to work alongside his mate Williamson and it's not an experience I'm likely to forget

🤣 I realise now by discussing my thoughts on politics and politicians that I have probably revealed why I’m more sympathetic to the royal family! And much less impressed with the government.

Agree again, MrsLF

A while ago I had some PMs from a lovely sounding lady who knows Lownie, asking whether I'd share with him some information I received from Mountbatten's late valet

After consideration I decided to decline, and in all honesty can't say I'm sorry now

To be fair to the government, they have the responsibility of actually making decisions and trying to help people. The Royal family basically highlight what others are doing, host people the country wants to impress and sign things that others have agreed on. It's a necessary role but it isn't one that puts people into poverty if they shake a hand the wrong way.

Yes his low response rate is telling. I also think it is always worth bearing in mind that, unless you are getting stories from the individual you are writing about directly then, you are working with secondary sources which are not always accurate. Let's face it even primary sources have bias and people don't always remember things clearly themselves.

Which isn't you say that Andrew isn't the person we think he is, just that even a staff source might be exaggerating or misremembering or plain making it up because Andrew shouted at him for putting the teddies in the wrong order.

Andrew's problem of course is that the evidence of financial misconduct at least is too detailed and too wide spread for doubt.

I also think it is always worth bearing in mind that, unless you are getting stories from the individual you are writing about directly then, you are working with secondary sources which are not always accurate

Absolutely, yes - except that in my own case I'd have been a third hand source , and while I could have accurately related what was told to me I wasn't there in the first place and also had no way of knowing what spin the author might have put on my account

Overall I can't criticise others for using "sources" and then engage in the same thing myself, so as said I'm glad I declined

Sorry if this sounds overly gushy but wow @Puzzledandpissedoffim genuinely impressed with how moral and ethical you are!
ive always thought you were extremely fair and respectful but I’m blown away.

I do know this obviously and I’m not disagreeing but it adds to my occasional feelings of frustration, there is nothing to do but hope things will improve afterall we can’t remove them all and start again without destroying the country.
I don’t know what the answer is 🤷‍♀️ .

You've very kind, @jeffgoldblum, but the praise in this case honestly isn't something I deserve, and for two reasons:

Firstly, while mostly retired now, some of the roles I've had required very strong ethics, and I suppose any slight natural inclination I had in that direction got honed by circumstances not of my own making

And secondly, knowing that I already have far too many faults, I try not to make the situation worse!!

This ⬆️
"Controlling the press" is like some sort of conspiracy theory.

I don't have any answers either. To my surprise I now remember fondly the politicians of my youth, all of them. I may not have agreed with at least half but I always felt that on the whole they had the country's best interests at heart, even if they disagree on how to get there.

You are being modest puzzled ( not that I’m surprised) , I try to be fair and always make an effort to understand both sides of an argument ( past careers mean diffusion of difficult people and complaints are nothing new) but as I’ve got older I find my patience is not what it was and I’m far more argumentative! 🤣 , I’m not sure I could have stood firm in your position, I would hope I could but I’m just not confident that I would.

talking of gossip!!! A little snippet has just come my way , it may be relevant or of interest or not depending on your thoughts!
lady Colin Campbell has just revealed that her literary agent is none other than … Andrew lownie!
this may not be new to anyone else but I’m rather surprised ( or not!)

Now that's interesting!

Funny you should say that !! I was having fond thoughts about Neil kinnock the other day! , don’t ask me why 🤷‍♀️ no idea! 🤣

I thought it was relevant because someone was comparing and asking if we believed what she said ! 😁

I completely agree. They seem to be a totally different class of person all sides of the political debate.

im struggling not to dump one of my essays on you but I have theories ab this. In the past MPs had usually had proper jobs and been successful in some walk of lire. They’d proved themselves in the real world. They might have been barristers, businesspeople, doctors, trades union officials, public service workers, charity workers etc etc. Will we ever see the likes of Alan Johnson and Frank Field for Labour, or John Major and some of Maggie’s ‘wets’ for the Tories?

Several ex-ministers published academic books after they retire. How many are capable or knowledgeable enough to do that now?

What I don’t want from an MP is :

Go to Oxford to do PPE
Get a job as a parliamentary researcher to an MP
Live only on London and mix with other London-based poloticos
Stand as an MP aged 26and three quarters.
Make squeaky-voiced speeches from a position of zero life experience.

I think this is the issue.

Absolutely. They need life experience and they need to come from all walks of life. Theory just isn't the same.

Its a great podcast. I have a few to catch up on.

Re the various interviews/youtube interviews etc, why has no journalist picked up on the Child abuse allegation? It's seems like the first thing that would need to be clarified. I wonder whether its clarified or reads differently in the book? It will be interesting to see what it actually says.