All the focus on H & M - where's the outrage against Andrew? (Season 2)

[Samcro]

Thread 2 of what is an interesting topic.

They need the publicity. But some of the media only like controversy because that's what sells.
Of course, Camilla, Edward, Sophie, Anne's visits should be covered, but maybe the likes of the DM think their readership just isn't interested. It's nothing to do with wanting to be celebrities! It's what media thinks people will click on.

Controversy sells. That's what Harry and Meghan understand. Be controversial, keep being negative, keep complaining, keep stirring the pot. You'll get the clicks. You can chase celebrity or you can be an official royal.
Anyone can find a big photo opportunity.

Your post was great, and my last post leads into this... the RF need publicity to survive. To be seen to be doing stuff, not just sat on their arses enjoying the splendour of where they live. Otherwise, there will be rumblings of 'what are they for, given how much it costs us'.

I agree about William, I think he is trying to put into place the idea that they don't have to be seen doing. And if the great british public get a bit angsty, they can just put out a schmalzy video and all will be well. I think it's the wrong approach, I think his PR people should be pushing for the media to attend every single time he does something that encapsulates his 'job'. Whether that be homeless shelters, anything, wherever he goes.

Yes, there will be a vacuum, Charles and Camilla get publicity because they are king/queen. And Charles seems to work hard, despite his health complications. William doesn't, and he needs to step up more.

Some good points, @Enoughisenough689 - but realistically, Harry and Meghan will never go quiet. It's their whole modus vivandi to be in the headlines.
Also, no-one has "pushed anti H&M rhetoric". No need. Just listen to, read and watch what they say and do. That's enough, really.

I thought that was what Samcro was suggesting and that is indeed a bleak view. Only this week I have seen a congratulations of 60 years of marriage and some Maundy money. Both were very special to the recipients and their family.
These things are traditional and not out there in the public ( although the Maundy money is). Two close friends of mine have also received OBEs as recognition of their going beyond their grade. These things don't always get massive recognition but they are there. I'm sure there are hundreds of visits done in a year to groups that never see the light of a front page.

Well this is the DM , but Andrew

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14626185/Prince-Andrew-fixer-fronting-PPE-firm-Baroness-Mone-criminal-investigation.html

Your post was great, and my last post leads into this... the RF need publicity to survive. To be seen to be doing stuff, not just sat on their arses enjoying the splendour of where they live. Otherwise, there will be rumblings of 'what are they for, given how much it costs us'.

so they need to be seen doing things for people to believe, but if the media doesn’t report it what do you suggest?

I agree about William, I think he is trying to put into place the idea that they don't have to be seen doing. And if the great british public get a bit angsty, they can just put out a schmalzy video and all will be well. I think it's the wrong approach, I think his PR people should be pushing for the media to attend every single time he does something that encapsulates his 'job'. Whether that be homeless shelters, anything, wherever he goes.

so it’s been mentioned he’s done visits but they weren’t covered by the media.. how can they be made to report things if it goes against their current “William is lazy “ agenda?

Yes, there will be a vacuum, Charles and Camilla get publicity because they are king/queen. And Charles seems to work hard, despite his health complications. William doesn't, and he needs to step up more.

but how do you know William doesn’t? It’s been mentioned that he’s done many undocumented visits, so obviously he does do things we just aren’t having them highlighted in the press ( wonder why?) , so I would ask how can you know he hasn’t stepped up?

and as Charles has waited a long time for this role , do you think he wants William to carry out his duties?
do you think if the king wants to do something his heir can make him give those duties to him instead?
they are a family at the end of the day , I’m sure William knows and cares about his fathers well-being more than a bunch of strangers.

Two great posts there and I agree with both.

Charity work is supposed to be one of the big reasons the Royals are worth retaining. If visits aren't getting out there due to a deliberate low-key approach it's going to be very easy for questioning what the whole set up is for and why we're spending so much on it to ramp up.

Royalty needs the oxygen of publicity to avoid slipping into irrelevancy.

C3 seems to recognise it. Billy Idle not so much.

Because, @CathyorClaire it's not about getting headlines and clicks. I think people just see Harry and Meghan and think - that's how you're royal, constantly pushing yourself into the spotlight. Having your image out there. Short term impact. All about themselves.
Maybe it's better to be authentic and work on things long term? Not how you can spiel it on your latest chat show.
Camilla visiting the women's refuge only made the local papers, but believe me, it made a lot of difference to all the women involved.

So much to unpick with your post JeffG

so they need to be seen doing things for people to believe, but if the media doesn’t report it what do you suggest?

That's what they have PR people for surely

so it’s been mentioned he’s done visits but they weren’t covered by the media.. how can they be made to report things if it goes against their current “William is lazy “ agenda?

No idea who 'they' and 'their' is

but how do you know William doesn’t? It’s been mentioned that he’s done many undocumented visits, so obviously he does do things we just aren’t having them highlighted in the press ( wonder why?) , so I would ask how can you know he hasn’t stepped up?

He is on holiday a lot. All the school holidays which probably total about 16 weeks a year, Court Circular where a telephone call is reported etc.
It's what I see and what the general public see. He needs to do more and be more visible. And get his PR people on the case. Before the public lose patience.

Royalty needs the oxygen of publicity to avoid slipping into irrelevancy.

^^ This with knobs on

Some really thought provoking posts here - @jeffgoldblum @Tomatotater @CathyorClaire and @MadeInGrimsby

So FWIW and it may be worth nothing , here's what I think. (& so people know where I am coming from I support a constitutional monarchy - I am not at all uncritical and there are many reforms I would like - but just so you know)

I think W is going down a wrong path if he thinks he can minimise the actual publicised visits . "I have to be seen to be believed - QEII). I do understand that with K's health scare that will have been a massive broadside to their family. & if they were "normal very very rich people 😁) who cares. They can WFH and take all the holidays they like - but W&K are not "normal very very rich people" they are expected to take the responsibilities as well as the perks.

On the one hand I think that (if they are) bringing up their family to understand their future responsibilities that is valid. & I understand W may want children who have had a more grounded upbringing than he had. That said once the children start going to "big school" - yes book a week's skiing , yes have a summer holiday and a bit of winter sun with K's family - but it doesn't need to be a blanket - no appointments.

If W has the view that this is a job he does until his last day , I don't actually mind him easing himself into it. That said lots of people have to work way beyond what they thought they would have to. DH & I consider ourselves lucky being able to retire early / mid 60s . So I have some sympathy here. But W is the next King and he is 40 ish - it's not just the late Queen's couple of years in Malta. I'm sure he can organise his diary to leave family time as well as public duties.

If he wants to modernise - I am not sure releasing minimal information about the Duchy of Cornwall is the way to do it. As a package I think he needs to be careful about seeming to retreat into privilege .

I agree a couple of perfume ad style videos won't cut it. I think a lot of people have had sympathy with them , even those who are going through similar with a fraction of the support . But if he comes over as taking the piss (sorry I am sure there's a better phrase 😂) that won't go down well even with people who instinctively support him.

Re Camilla and the Refuge - that did make the national press , but quite rightly in my view she wanted to keep the actual visit low key because those women do not want cameras outside their refuge. She did ask apparently. if there was a side entrance.

So - somewhat off the top of my head and I am sure many will disagree. Even I might disagree with myself given other posts and time 😊

@BasiliskStare - just one point - when Camilla visited the refuge in my town, she came in a modest car with 2 people. She used a side entrance. She spoke to every woman there, plus the volunteers. She gave every woman a toiletries bag with some lovely treats in, so thoughtful.
We looked in the national press and couldn't see the report for our town. We possibly missed it.

Re William, I think he’s doing things ok. He’s going to be working until he’s on his deathbed, literally. He will want to follow his grandmother’s example, and will want to model that for his grandchildren. I think it’s ok to work part-time until you drop, rather than full-time until you retire. (All uses of “work” being in “-“). There will be times, once he’s King, where he will have to put the country before his family. They all dread being coronated. It’s the end of their freedom to do basic things like putting your children first.

More importantly, I think the dysfunction of his own childhood, being the child of divorced parents, having his mother die so early, and being literally one of two people alive to know what it’s like to be George, to whom he has more than a fatherly duty: I think it’s best for the king George will eventually become and his siblings will eventually be supporting characters for, that he focus on a healthy upbringing and sane, stable home life for his children. He needs to do that for them, and to model it for George so he knows how to do that for his children. He has much to thank the Middletons for on this front. He will want to avoid any type of drama along the lines of Dodi this, Tampongate that, Martin Bashir interviews and whatnot. His family is not a model anyone would want to emulate! He’s going to be the King possibly before his youngest has finished school. That changes everything.

@MadeInGrimsby - the one I read about was in Croydon. That was in the national press but not until afterwards. I can quite see why such a visit had to be low key , side entrance etc because , rightly & I think she realised - from the people who ran it she was the one who asked for a side entrance so no photos , the wishes , needs of those women were more important than her getting a "Camilla does a visit" photo.

I quite like her - shoot me 😂 I think depite all else she is a woman who did not seek the titles or the job. But she's trying & I suspect a very calming influence on Charles.

Ok, this wasn't in Croydon. She was such a dry, funny, kind person. Absolutely wanted to hear every woman's story. No airs and graces, no shock at the stories told, just really positive and down to earth.

@HiRen thought provoking post. I think he’ll be king realistically before George finishes school never mind Louis. That’s a guess, btw!

I think it’s ok to work part-time until you drop, rather than full-time until you retire.

Willy wasn't even 'part-time' whatever that means until some seven or so years ago. There's always been an excuse as to why he's had a pass and now it's school runs and stay at home dadding.

He's just as much of a grifter and grasper as his reviled bro but inexplicably gets the breaks.

And as I always point out he's as free as any of them to shake the shackles...

I also think that people have very short memories. When the late Queen was clearly getting frail and even after she died, people were saying Charles would be a useless king and the throne should go straight to William. And for many years mo one thought Charles would be a good king with his “crackpot” ideas on the environment and what were seen as political interferences. Yet now, everyone seems to have accepted him and even those who were previously scathing have reluctantly has to admit he is doing ok. So now William is getting the flack and being labelled workshy etc. Plus ca change 🤷‍♀️

part of word missing

Also, until a few years ago, William was actually quite a long way from the throne, so it doesn’t seem unreasonable that he should be allowed family time when there was still the late Queen, Prince Philip and his father between him and being the actual monarch

"inexplicably gets the breaks".
Funny that, isn't it? Could it be that Harry has spent the last 5 years as some sort of professional victim, selling his family's privacy for money, lying about them, lying about what he has claimed, and generally acting like some entitled, arrogant medieval prince?

Excellent points, @smilesy . People have very short memories.

That's actually ridiculous. There's no comparison between the two brothers. And William did work as a helicopter pilot, which Harry was in the army.

Don't remember Prince Philip ever being in line for the top job but still.

Seven years ago Willy was mid thirties and still ducking while LTQ was pushing 90 and Pa 70.

The prospect of succession or at a minimum stepping up meaningfully doesn't look that much of a stretch TBF.

generally acting like some entitled, arrogant medieval prince?

Both hideous but Willy's the one with the financially obscure feudal inheritance and no stated intention of shedding light on the mechanics.

I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable for William to take time off to support his children while Catherine was ill. I imagine all sorts of things were going through his head about the loss of his own mother.

I am close to someone who has had preventative treatment for gastrointestinal cancer and it wasn’t an easy ride at all and they took a full year to recover.

However, I hope W is humble about the fact that he could do this and realises that many parents have to work ft when one half of a couple has a serious illness. And most people don’t have to staff to step in either.

Leaving that aside though, because I think that counts as exceptional circumstances, I do think it gets harder to get in to a regular good rhythm of hard work when you are older, if you haven’t got used to it in your thirties and forties. I doubt he is lying around scrolling on his phone though!

There’s the Duchy of Cornwall of course which brings in £20 million a year. That’s a proper commercial organisation. I suppose there’s a lot to learn about running that. Presumably his staff do the hands on management?