I am glad Kate is feeling much better,however

[portocristo]

Watching the news about the horrendous rubbish problem in Birmingham,this was followed by Kates film clip rambling about Windermere saying we need to connect with nature and couldn’t help thinking it was inappropriate.I bet cancer sufferers in Birmingham would love to do this instead of holding down a job worrying about col doing chores that I bet she never does and have stinking rubbish with rats in the streets. I have no problem with her video but thought the timing was so off. They sometimes need to read the room.

Princess Margaret was a Counsellor of State as she was in the top four adults over 21 in the line of succession until Prince Edward turned 21. It was not a compensation for being a Spare. And Margaret did not run to the media complaining when her nephew replaced her.

In addition, I am surprised that you think a grandchild of the monarch should feel entitled to the same perks as a child of the monarch. And the fact is even the children of the monarch did not receive the same deal. At marriage QE2 bought estates for Anne and Andrew, whose marriages later collapsed. By the time Edward was wed, all Edward got a long-term lease. Furthermore, Edward got an Earldom at marriage, a lower rung versus Andrew who got a Dukedom. I have yet to see Edward shriek to the media about being shortchanged relative to his siblings.

Harry humiliated? M, who lived in a Toronto rental moved into a central London property that previously housed 2 future Kings. His wife outspent every spare's wife (Fergie and Sophie) by an order of magnitude for her engagement dress which cost KC3 $75,000. M happily spent £406,662.55 on clothes in 2018 versus the then Crown Princess Mary of Denmark who came second in royal ladies spending with £88,999.57...i.e. M spent more than 4.5x than the future Queen of Denmark and was the top spender for all royal ladies in 2018. H got his spectacle of a marriage...although per his own book H wanted the much larger St. Paul's. H's recollections varied from Oprah where the marriage was the two of plus with the Archbishop in the garden...which the Archbishop promptly denied claiming the televised £32 million spectacle was the real deal. I am not seeing the humiliation here either.

Harry is the one who lacked any sort of judgement about his situation. The monarchy needed to do precisely zero for him as his line is irrelevant to the Crown. He can look to Princess Margaret's line...in less than a century the average person cannot pick out her children and grandchildren in a photo.

Admittedly I need to look in to this further!

I am interested to know how the costs of a Royal visit are calculated.

Someone I know did have a member of the RF come to their event and certain expenses were shared, but I am not sure which, or how they were divided up?

I’d like to know if the RF charge a fee above and beyond certain running costs though?

Does it make a difference if the RF member is a patron of the charity or not?

The only direct experience I have is a Vicar of Dibley scenario 😀 hiring a local celebrity for a charity fete, and we dealt exclusively with their agent.

Does anyone know how it works? Or, I suppose the better question is, are these figures available to the public and transparent?

No different to any farming family where usually the eldest son inherits the farm and all the land, or business owners who hand over the business, again usually to the eldest son, or any other Aristocratic family where the son inherits the family seat and all its riches, Harry is no different, he was born second, boo bloody hoo, he is richer and more privileged than 99.9 % of the country and he is still poor little old me, the fact he inspires sympathy for the life fate has dealt him never ceases to baffle me.

How fascinating. Thank you for this information My2cents1975.

You are much better informed about who wore which wedding dress than me.

I imagine costs have risen considerably since Fergie’s and Sophie’s weddings though?

It’s also fascinating to know that all of Meghan’s expenses are obviously detailed somewhere and open for discussion; whereas I am not sure we know what Camilla or Catherine spend on their outfits do we?

I applaud the future Queen of Denmark if she allows information about her wardrobe expenses to be available to the Danish people.

As to the grandchild to the monarch point, no disrespect to QEII intended, but aged ninety-two or three, it was pretty apparent that the new order was taking over,

And I love the way that you characterise Edward as “only” receiving a long-term lease, when he has all the benefits of living in a huge estate close to Windsor, with part of the upkeep presumably paid by the Sovereign Grant? Do you know what housing costs are like in that part of the world for us ordinary mortals?

You know that he recently extended the lease from the Crown Estate, for his children, for the next 150 years for a mere £5 million; on an estate which has a market price of £30 million? No, I wouldn’t be complaining about this either! His adult children won’t be worrying about finding accommodation that’s for sure! Isn’t it handy how they get to lease property owned and managed by the Crown back to themselves at preferential rates?

https://www.hellomagazine.com/homes/20210707116938/prince-edward-sophie-wessex-bagshot-park-lease/?viewas=amp

However, I wholeheartedly agree with the point that The monarchy needed to do precisely zero for him as his line is irrelevant to the Crown.

Yes the way the royal family system works is rather callous! They are all about self preservation that’s for sure!

@Therovingsunlight77 the outfit costs are guesstimates made by a fashion blog (UFO No More) that follows royal fashion - notes any new item that appears, prices it out and adds it all up for a yearly total.

They do most of the prominent European royals. (Image added with totals - under review)

So in 2018 you’d expect Meghan to have spent more than Catherine because it was her first year as a Royal and wouldn’t have the same base line of basics that can be reused - shoes, bags etc

But it was the amount of the difference which was a little shocking. I think it was bumped up by a few pieces which were individually very expensive.

The amount of money the Catholic church pulls in, it bloody well should be!

If you really believe that the Pope never benefitted from the vast wealth of the church, then you are truly naive.

You know what, I don't care how wealthy the RF is. I imagine all royal families are wealthy. It doesn't affect my day-to-day life on jot, so I couldn't be arsed to get worked up about it.

Your original thesis @Therovingsunlight77 was that H was treated differently from his sibling W. I gave examples of how Edward was treated differently from his siblings. And how Margaret in the generation above had to give way to her nephews and niece in the next generation.

So, I am not sure of your point. Especially, since H said in an interview that he supported the monarchy...a system which puts H ahead of his aunts, uncles and cousins, but forever behind his older brother, nephews and niece. A system whereby the first-born son (and after 2013 first-born child) takes all.

Surely, H knows that Earl Spencer did not share Althorp equally with his siblings, one of whom was H’s mother? Surely, H knows his indiscrete Uncle Spencer shared his intention to pass his entire estate to his first-born son leaving out the other kids from his first marriage and all the kids from his other marriages?

Unfair inheritance is not only a feature of the UK aristocrats and farming families but is part and parcel of unfair inheritance around the world. In a post (months ago) I mentioned how the firstborn son in Nigeria [Yoruba tribes (Dawodu), Igbo tribes (Okpala) and Hausa-Fulani tribes (follow Islamic law)] inherits the lion's share and manages the late father's estate. Go to China and for more than two millennia, Chinese families passed down riches to the oldest son. Go to South America and the Maya civilization passed down riches to the oldest son.

H was provided with a world class education and access to resources to live a lifestyle well above his owned assets. H could have followed the example of his Aunt Anne or his Uncle Edward, but H chose to "find freedom" in America with his wife and children. IMHO, H should focus his energy on building his new life as opposed to wasting his children's inheritance on legal fees.

Personally I think being a spare is preferable to being the monarch!

What about farming families? Business owners? There's plenty of examples where the firstborn gets preferential treatment.

I don't know about Edward but I think that's a really unfair comment about Anne! I think she is genuinely driven by a sense of duty. I've never seen any signs of Edward "toeing the line" to "get privileges" either!

Because most of us couldn't actually care less.

Do submit FOIs and write to your MP if you are losing sleep over it.

Well William and Harry did share an office until Meghan came on the scene. I don't see any signs of Charles or William briefing the press but Harry does it plenty!

What else is the king supposed to do? He can't trust Harry one inch! I am sure he doesn't want to be estranged either but he knows Harry is liable to mouth off in public and therefore he's he is a loose cannon and too much of a risk.

They were never going to keep Harry and Meghan onboard. She was never going to be suitable for life in the royal family and she always planned her escape.

Hang on a second, you're the one who has been banging on about the RC church! Are you then derailing? I really don't see @BemusedAmerican as derailing the thread one bit. She is responding to the points made!

I am sure the Pope lived a very comfortable life, and why shouldn't he?! He maybe chose not to live in the designated apartment but I am pretty sure he will have had the best of everything throughout his papacy, including care and support in his old age which most of the rest of us couldn't begin to hope for!

Elected Heads of State have a lot more power than a constitutional monarch does!

IMHO, the sausage story highlights how ridiculous H's claims of mistreatment are. Every family on the planet that has access to adequate food puts different amounts of food on the plate for different family members. A ten-year-old has a different appetite from an eight-year-old so whoever is dishing out the meal would naturally put more on the ten-year-old's plate than the eight-year-old's plate.

If H still felt hungry and wanted an additional sausage, QE2 didn't have to gather the Knights of the Most Noble Order of the Garter and dispatch them to scour the land for additional sausages. All H had to do was to ask for more.

A reporter needs to ask H whether his two children receive the exact same portions for their meals, given H's strong feelings about sausage equity.

You know what, I don't care how wealthy the RF is. I imagine all royal families are wealthy. It doesn't affect my day-to-day life on jot, so I couldn't be arsed to get worked up about it.

This is exactly how I feel about it.

Although Anne said in an interview once that the head nanny treated her and Charles differently - she wasn't mad about it but talked about it wryly in Princess Anne fashion.

And I remember an interview with one of the Queen's cousins who was taken to a family event as a child and his mother pointed out Elizabeth and said something like "she's the one to be nice to" or words to that effect.

I'm sure Harry felt the subtle differences in people's attitudes to him. It was probably increasing as they headed into their 30s and people could see how much influence William was already having with the Queen and his father.

I think that's why William likes hanging out with Anne's family, particularly Zara and Mike because they are aren't afraid to tease him and not stand on ceremony.

Harry ...and there's the rest of those greedy royals 😂

@wordlerhow do you know W likes hanging out with Z&M we only see them at official occasions where all the family are not at any private functions. We don’t really have a clue how they all get on privately. The men in grey suits managed to put a good public image out about Harry until it all came crashing down after his move to America. How do we know that they aren’t doing the same with other members of the RF be it C&C or W&C. It is all a public persona we don’t actually know what they are like privately.

I don’t care either 🙋🏻‍♀️

This “how do you know?” question is utterly tiresome, on par with but but Andrew 🙄 here you go seeing as you are desperate for evidence.

A few more for good measure.

Well, as has been pointed out a number of times, the RF and celebs don't operate in the same way.

Celebrities are earning a living from appearances, so they usually charge (though we had some high profile people giving their services for free because they were long term supporters).

The RF are representing the HoS (and therefore the community in general in recognising 'good works' of value to the community. They get their costs covered through the Sovereign Grant, they don't charge the cause they are visiting.

Hence people pointing out Meghan's overheard comment 'I can't believe I am not being paid for this' showed her complete lack.of understanding of the role of a working royal. The costs associated with her visit - including staff, clothes etc - were paid for. She was expected to 'volunteer' her time.

Although, to add, the cause covers things usually provided by a host, such as refreshments, and there may be specific requests.

A friend who managed an event Charles attended said he requested a selection of British cheeses and oatcakes, plus still and sparkling water.

Another specified a selection of sandwiches, none of which should have any raw onion.

It’s also fascinating to know that all of Meghan’s expenses are obviously detailed somewhere and open for discussion; whereas I am not sure we know what Camilla or Catherine spend on their outfits do we?

We do actually - well, not Camilla as most of her bothers are bespoke and so impossible to value in the same way you can find the retail price of off-the-peg items.

But for Meghan, Kate annd several other Royal ladies there are actual stats on collated by a Royal wardrobe blogger who identifies each item they wear and then where possible tracks the retail price of the item and then tallies them. For example, they have a whole page setting out the stats for what Kate, Meghan and Princess Sofia of Sweden wore in each of their first year as a married-in royal family member. The source quotes in Euros, and the figures for Kate and Meghan respectively are:

Kate - €61,603
Meghan - €479,048

Both tallies exclude bespoke designer items for which no price was available - Kate wore 38 of these in her first year, and Meghan wore 48.
ufonomore.com/blog/first-year

They are seen a lot at non official - mostly sporty activities together - the kids all playing together. You can tell when you see their kids interacting at Christmas etc that they know each other well.

Also Kate posted a few photos over the years with all of Anne’s grandkids and her kids at Balmoral with the Queen and PP so it’s clear they’ve been coordinating their Balmoral weeks to some time together.

Plus Mike Tindall has let little bits slip out on his rugby podcast over the years about William and Kate which sounds like they have fun with each other.