How will the Royal Family end?

[JoyousGreyOrca]

The Royal Family will end. Not yet obviously. But within the next generation.

People often assume institutions like this fall slowly and gradually. We see a bit of that already happening with the reduction in "working" Royals, far less favourable poll results than when Queen Elizabeth reigned, and the willingness of the media to be more critical of the Royal Family.

I have seen people commenting assuming this means the Royal family will end soon. I think they misunderstand what is happening.

But society is changing and the deference that Queen Elizabeth attracted can no longer be taken for granted. Colonies are no longer happy for the Royals to carry out cosplay colonial tours on their soil, and increasingly they will remove the King as their Head of State. But I think when the end comes it will be sudden and unexpected. Similar to the fall of the Soviet Union. A clear weakening of the institution, but then a sudden, and shocking fall.

The aftermath will be very messy though as the Royal family try and fight for as much of the states wealth as they can, using the courts if they need to.

Surely it’s up to the monarchs themselves on if and when they want abdicate, not the people. That's the whole point of a constitutional monarchy. If Charles thinks he’s fit and competent enough to keep working, who are we say otherwise? You’d get done for age discrimination if you told Barbara down at Asda that she’s getting too old and unwell to keep working, and maybe it’s time she should retire. What if they don’t want to retire?

How many times do I have to say on this thread that I know they are not going anywhere. I have said this maybe eight times or more.

I have said numerous times it will be many generations in the future maybe. So there is no need for me to get over anything ta!

The Queen's own statement at her last jubilee said she wished Camilla to be known as Queen Consort. It certainly wasn't after she died.

She is known as Queen Consort. She is also known as Queen Camilla. Her being crowned and titled Queen Consort is exactly what the 2022 statement said was going to happen.

Some people remain insistent that it meant she always meant to be titled as Queen Consort in every mention rather than Queen Camilla or just Queen Consort. There's no suggestion this was ever the intention. It does appear some people still think the title of Queen Consort was invented just a few years ago.

I think Harry and Meghan care about the titles to be fair… But anyway, they are famous (or infamous) because of their titles and the fact that they are/were royals.

Not many people had heard of Meghan Markle before she met Harry. And no one would care about plain old Henry Mountbatten-Windsor helping out veterans without his royal connections.

And that is the point. They can do what they want. They can cling on to office long past the time they can do any of the actual "work" and there is nothing we can do.
In the real world people have to go when they are no longer capable of doing the job.

I’m just going to leave these here for you to read. You cannot fire someone for being too old. Even if they are struggling, you have to offer them support to help keep them in the job (this is what happened with the Queen). The Queen felt fit and competent enough to do her duties and had support to help her in other areas.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/work-learning/discrimination-rights/ageism/ageism-at-work/

https://ageing-better.org.uk/tackling-ageism-recruitment

@PrettyFlyforaMaiTai We understand reasonable adjustments. But no employer in the land would keep you on if you have to be helped out of bed for a very short meeting and photo op at your house, because you are too ill to leave your house. You would be retired on grounds of ill health.
Queen Elizabeth died a couple of days after her last engagement. We were told that Anne had been visiting daily for the last week as they knew she was dying, but thought she would last slightly longer than she did.

Yes. This infuriates me too. The late Queen said that it was her wish that Camilla be Queen consort ( like every other king’s wife before her) and she probably added the “consort” bit to make it clear that she meant “Queen” to Charles as king. Just in case anyone thought she was naming Camilla as her heir, which might have been the case if she had just said “It is my wish that Camilla be Queen”. Might have cause a bit of a constitutional crisis 🙄

And I think Charles will hold onto the Head of State position until the bitter end as well.
There seems no recognition that it does weaken the institution.
William is already 42 years old. And Catherine has made it clear she will not be doing many engagements at all. We will see them at Wimbledon and FA Men's Cup. But it is not going to be a strong foundation.

@DappledThings The Queen's statement about Camilla being Queen Consort was not released until after the Queen died. Obviously we are told it was agreed before she died.

You cannot force someone to retire or fire someone for ill health either.

She managed to work up pretty much until her death with what she considered reasonable support.

www.gov.uk/dismissal/reasons-you-can-be-dismissed#:~:text=You%20can%20be%20dismissed%20if,you%20sick%20and%20needs%20changing

Nope. February 2022. Her Ascension Day speech in the year of her jubilee.

The BBC seem to have known about it in the February before she died. Must be clairvoyant

@PrettyFlyforaMaiTai Yes they can. They have to make reasonable adjustments. And they have to consider redeployment into an alternative job. But if you are still not capable of working, they can get rid of you on the grounds of capability. Every year employers get rid of people on this basis. And simply saying I feel like I am capable does not cut it. You have to actually be capable.

King Charles is 76, he’s not that old. Joe Biden was 82 when he left the presidency. Donald Trump is 78 and just started his second term in office.

42 years old is not old at all. If Charles makes it to the grand old of the Queen Mother, William will inherit the throne at around 65.

Where has Catherine said that she will not take on engagements when she is Queen?

King Charles has cancer and is getting ongoing chemo. He understandably has had to have short days in his tours abroad.
Biden was a doddering old man and Trump seems like he has signs of dementia.
Charles is unlikely to live as long as Queen Elizabeth with his health problems.

I did not say that Catherine would not take on any engagements as Queen, but she would not take on many engagements. We have been told for a long time that she is putting family first and so always wants to be home for school runs and with the children during their holiday time.

This exactly. Such ageism to suggest that mid-late 70s is 'too elderly' to function. And that it's a problem that William is already 42! As if that's past it too !!!

So rude! FGS some people have their first baby at 42!

.

But without the level of engagements Queen Elizabeth and Philip did, they will be seen as increasingly irrelevant.
There really is no argument to keep them. Even the argument about a constitutional safeguard was shown to be nonsenses when Johnson prorogued parliament and the Queen had to sign the order.
Alternatively we could make them a private family but allow them to keep their titles, and pay them a fee for each event. So if the government wants a state opening of parliament it can decided if they can afford the fee being charged. If they want the Royals to do a foreign tour, they can pay them for that tour and judge whether they got their monies worth.

But she was capable. She carried out her engagements right until the end. Even Liz Truss said

“I was obviously in the first few days of being prime minister and thinking about the many, many different things…But the assumption, absolutely, was this would be the first of many, many meetings” so she didn’t realise she was on death’s door. She had thought the Queen was fit enough and well enough to carry on with het work with reasonable adjustments.

Truss also said of the meeting "She was very determined to do her duty, and right to the end we had a very, very good meeting, and she was upbeat."

I suggested no such thing. But it means Charles and Camilla are too old to bring any glamour. And that is something celebrities usually bring to the table.

@PrettyFlyforaMaiTai lots of duties had already been passed over to Charles.

Well the late Queen was certainly a popular and well respected HoS throughout the world. What glamour did she bring to the role at 96? What has glamour got to do with it? If we became a republic, would we only elect “glamorous” HoS? How shallow would that be? And what sort of candidates would we have?

Short days are a perfectly responsible adjustment with someone suffering from cancer. I have a team supervisor who works from home and has become part time until they are fully recovered. I think she has completed her chemotherapy but is still too unwell to come back to work without reasonable support. She was very determined to get back to work though, bless her.

But anyway, if Charles isn’t as likely to reach the Queen’s age, that’s another thing for you to look forward to. That means that William will be king in his late 50s/very early 60s.

And in regards to Catherine, do you think she will still be doing the school run when the kids are in their 20s? Louis is 6 almost 7. So he’s got about another 10-11 years at school before he’s off to university. So that’s not going to be a problem unless William becomes King within the next 10 years. And even if that does happen, once Louis has gone to university or whatever it is he would like to do, Catherine will be able to focus on her engagements.

@PrettyFlyforaMaiTai By the time the kids no longer need the school run, there will be other excuses for why they can not do more work.

@PrettyFlyforaMaiTai And employers let people go part time with part time wages. Or they limit the amount of time someone can work part time and get full time wages.
Businesses are not run for the benefit of employees.
But the Head of State can basically do what they want.