C4 Dispatches on Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster

[Babadookinthewardrobe]

I couldn’t find another thread on this. I watched this yesterday. I am so angry. The royal family are grim parasites funding their luxury lifestyle from the sweat of the British people. Via the duchies they are rinsing the NHS and charities for millions. It’s horrific. No IHT, no CGT, no transparency, no consideration for the environment of which they are supposed to be stewards in the duchies.

Their behaviour and greed is absolutely grim
and I am so sick of the lot of them. I’m joining republic, I’m so shocked at what I’ve just seen. The French had the right idea.

Royal wills are kept secret, no one else's are. Charles inherited billions from the queen and did not pay ANY inheritance tax, the queen only voluntarily started paying tax on the 1990s due to pressure...they are one the uks biggest landowners and own prime retail on Oxford street, London...Andrew's legal costs/security covered, even though he should be in prison.

They get tax payers money to pay for heating/maintain ace/repair for national buildings like Buckingham Palace but can the public access these buildings we pay for ? Only some parts and for a fee...the crown jewels are worth billions, only they get to wear them, but we pay for visiting rights and we pay for security. The queen bought artwork using tax payers money, but it is kept in a private collection, away from the public, some pieces are shown in exhibitions but you have to pay to see them.

They advertise for staff on minimum wage, and for Christmas presents given to staff they get stuff from the gifts shop bargain bin.

They don't pay tax, they hide assets, they interfere politically when it suits them.

All revealed in this book...

https://amzn.eu/d/cI7XWcu

I put a thread on this in AIBU last night.

@Cartwrightandson

Thank you for linking that book. It has actually been updated since it was first written too.

If it's true that they choose to pay some tax, then they won't mind a change in the law, will they!

Normal self-assessment rules aren’t voluntary for anyone else though, unlike the king and pow. So that statement is meaningless, and untrue.
I’m also not allowed to deduct my household costs and other outgoings from my income before I pay tax on it either. No one knows what tax William has paid because he won’t disclose it so not possible to work out the rate at which it is paid. But a brief look at the figures from when Charles had the Duchy of Cornwall doesn’t look like the tax disclosed was 45%, no.

Sorry to start another thread @marmaladeandpeanutbutter, I missed yours. I’m just so angry, the grabby, hypocritical, selfish 🤬🤬🤬🤬s!

They get tax payers money to pay for heating/maintain ace/repair for national buildings like Buckingham Palace but can the public access these buildings we pay for ? Only some parts and for a fee

Yes that annoys me too, @Cartwrightandson
Looking at the more obvious Head of State residences in the US, France and Germany they're all free to visit, but Buck House has to be paid for. I'd mention Windsor too except that's supposed to be a "private home", except apparently when bits burn down

If it's a business then let them pay tax

The Duchy is a landowner. These ‘feudal levies’ would be ‘levied’ by any other landowner that owned rivers or lands.
Do Channel 4 and the times expect us to believe that no other landowner charges (shock! horror!) rent to schools and hospitals?

They are being criticised for making money and using revenue to self fund so they are not just living off the tax payer, they can’t win.

The facts are:

1. The income from both Duchies has been voluntarily taxed since 1993.

1. The day-to-day management of the Duchy of Lancaster is administered by the Duchy Council, which is responsible to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster,

.

1. HM Treasury must approve all property transactions for the Duchy of Cornwall, and its accounts are laid before Parliament to ensure it is keeping to its statutory obligations.

1. The financial and environmental performance of both Duchies is independently auditedand freely available on their websites.

1. The Duchies are private portfolios dating back to the 13th century, entirely separate from the Crown Estate which surrenders its revenues to HM Treasury.

1. The Duchies are inalienable assets. The King and the Prince of Wales are not entitled to the portfolios' capital or capital profits.

1. Legislation impacting the Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster is liable to receive King's or Prince's consent before they are debated in Parliament, but consent may only be withheld with ministerial advice.

However, I do feel that they could do themselves a favour and increase the transparency. Eg, how much tax they pay and declare this.

I also think that U.K. residents/tax payers should have free access to the residences. @Puzzledandpissedoff and @Cartwrightandson you make excellent points.

Not sure why all my points above are numbered 1?! Posting fail 🤣

Exactly. I don't really get the outrage.

I expect there would be a lot less outrage if they weren't expressing faux outrage about homelessness or pretending they care about sick children

Well HM Treasury also have a lot to answer for in allowing this absolute racket to continue under cover of secrecy. The King is supposed to care for his subjects. Evidently he does not. This medieval institution of billionaires is literally taking money hand over fist from the NHS, from charities, from his own armed forces ffs while his son coins it as a slum Landlord, all the while avoiding tax.
I cannot believe the sycophancy and serf-like attitude of anyone defending them. They are a disgrace.

Why is it faux outrage and pretend care?

Oh me too. Don't worry, the more this is discussed the better. There'll be few apologists for them. By the way, did you see that the Times was in partnership with channel 4 on this research and programme.

Because they have the means to make an actual tangible difference..and don't.

I know wealthy people who have created homes for people. Or given away land for hospices and similar for free.

My own ancestors built libraries, hospitals and universities.

That's what you do if you actually care

Slum landlord @Babadookinthewardrobe?

Probably an opinion formed due to the photos that relate to the tenant that has been in rent arrears since 2005 and won’t allow access for contractors to sort the house out? Hasn’t heated or ventilated the house properly so condensation mould has grown everywhere.

Black mould @MummyJ12, terrible EPC and carbon ratings. Any other commerical
landlord would be held to account.

Black mould is condensation mould @Babadookinthewardrobe and they can’t upgrade as the tenant won’t allow access.

ONE tenant. It is not just ONE tenant complaining!

There are many if you read the articles on it.

I can’t get excited about whether we pay them rent or not.

What we should be demanding is far more radical: a total return of land and property stolen over the centuries to the public.

The fact that our Labour government has not at least started to address this with a wealth tax is a disgrace.

I agree with you@MummyJ12

I’ve also pointed out in a previous discussion on this topic which had a lot of very similar posting styles and positions, but posting under different names (interesting, that) that the Duchies aren’t corporations and so aren’t charged corporation taxes.

Not everything is a corporation, and the way non-corporation businesses are taxed is consistent with how the Duchy is taxed. Its legal status is unusual because the Duchy is unusual. This isn't because it is royal, it is because it is old. It doesn't just predate the Companies Act, it predates any modern understanding of company law. It's a feudal hangover in the modern legal system. And it’s not unique in this either - the Inns of Court, the Colleges of Oxford and Cambridge, the City of London Livery Guilds are similar.

They have never paid 45% income tax.

They have never paid income tax on all the profits of the duchy/s.

They have sometimes, “voluntarily” paid 25% on the sums they have paid out of duchy and into their own pockets, but since Charles became king and William pow they have stopped declaring what if any income tax they choose to pay and at what rate.

I assume if it was an increase I.e.more than 25% on part only of their income, they would be sure to tell us. So it’s a fair assumption it is less or none. What is left in there is entirely untaxed as they do not pay CGT or any corporation tax.

William charges the navy a fortune to moor ships to defend his fathers crown at Devonport, Britannia naval college etc

it is outrageous. Fold the duchies into the crown estate, pay Charles £10m-£15 pa to fund his family, charge them rent on anything over say 2 palaces, and tell them if they don’t like it they can bog off.

And the fact that the tenants can’t keep their houses warm @MummyJ12, and all the excruciatingly expensive heating they buy just disappears into the atmosphere while they shiver. How lovely for the tenants, alongside the mould. How super for the environment while simultaneously William wangs on about his earth shot prize.

How can you defend this? Are you pleased that your taxes towards the NHS are being siphoned off to buy extra luxuries for the royals. Do you think they need those funds more than the NHS?

I don’t get it charities and NHS rent loads of properties from loads of LL
the duchey is a LL like the rest of them

as for NHS money the bigger scandal is the enormous amount they waste rather than the rent they pay to LL