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The royal family
Original poster

Extensive Phone Hacking by MGN

892 replies

Roussette · 15/12/2023 11:04

So... Harry has won his case.

As lawyers are saying now... this is massive. 15 out of 33 accusations of hacking by Harry were upheld as a result of phone hacking and other illegal practices.
Hacking and blagging were even taking place during the Leveson enquiry.

He has won damages of £140,000 plus. And before this thread descends into Harry hate, please think of all the other claimants who have also had their claims upheld and damages awarded to them. They went through hell, medical records hacked and reported on, trackers on cars, phones hacked...

It's not about the money, it's about 'accountability of power'.

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Anisette · 15/12/2023 13:59

I hope HIGNFY is on this week - I look forward to Ian Hislop's reaction to the findings about Piers Moron.

ThisisgroundcontroltoMajorTom · 15/12/2023 13:59

MrsLeonFarrell · 15/12/2023 13:50

I think it's also important, whilst celebrating the press being brought to account to resist turning the wider story of Harry and Meghan and the royals into a goodies and baddies narrative. That is how the tabloids want us to think because if they can split people into teams they can run more stories and get more revenue.

This judgement has nothing to say about Meghan, it's about events that happened way before they met. It has nothing to say about the family relationships. This is a judgment about how one newspaper behaved and I think the danger is that the public start getting pulled into the tribal narrative that they are trying to use to deflect and the main issue get forgotten.

I understand that MrsLeonFarrell and you make very good points but Harry & M have been thrown under the bus so many times and endured so much being on one side of the battle, that I think it would be deeply unfair not to look at the wider issues.

Original poster
Roussette · 15/12/2023 14:00

Anisette · 15/12/2023 13:59

I hope HIGNFY is on this week - I look forward to Ian Hislop's reaction to the findings about Piers Moron.

Oh yes hahahaha... Ian absolutely loathes Piers. Sensible man!

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Cakester · 15/12/2023 14:00

But this is my wider point, everyone is a mix of good and bad decisions, wise and foolish, and if we should allow nuance and complexity into more areas of public life

I really agree with this. I don't think anyone is perfect and I don't expect it either. There are some people that go beyond being just a normal average person who is a mix of good and bad, and I think most of us agree Andrew is one of those, but he is a product of a very weird and outdated institution thats no longer fit for modern society. I feel quite sad about the way society currently likes to put people into boxes of villain or hero, and I think social media is really bad for that, in a way that also deeply impacts peoples lives. I think of all the reality stars who have taken their life as an example.

Tontostitis · 15/12/2023 14:06

Harry and Meghan fell under the bus they were trying to drive through their families. They weren't thrown under a bus at all. He lost today on 50% of the cases and recieved £140k settlement after being offered £200k to settle as theyd already admitted guilt. Hopefully he'll donate it to Invictus and start living happily and privately.

ThisisgroundcontroltoMajorTom · 15/12/2023 14:10

Tontostitis · 15/12/2023 14:06

Harry and Meghan fell under the bus they were trying to drive through their families. They weren't thrown under a bus at all. He lost today on 50% of the cases and recieved £140k settlement after being offered £200k to settle as theyd already admitted guilt. Hopefully he'll donate it to Invictus and start living happily and privately.

He won the ruling today based on only a quarter of the incidents he brought in as evidence so I think it was a resounding win and he was brave not to settle.

Original poster
Roussette · 15/12/2023 14:12

What a shame @Tontostitis you can't agree with every single news report I've heard this morning, that this is a huge win and will be good for everyone, including you.

Just incidentally, it's nothing to do with money. You saying he gave up £200K for £140K is a loss. Not to him. It's about accountability, not money. Not everything has to be based on £££££

He bravely pushed forward and he won.

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Cakester · 15/12/2023 14:13

Tontostitis · 15/12/2023 14:06

Harry and Meghan fell under the bus they were trying to drive through their families. They weren't thrown under a bus at all. He lost today on 50% of the cases and recieved £140k settlement after being offered £200k to settle as theyd already admitted guilt. Hopefully he'll donate it to Invictus and start living happily and privately.

you seem almost disappointed with this judgement? No they had not admitted guilt for all 15 articles at that stage, they've only ever admitted to 1 claim, at the start of trial and said the rest was 'fantastical'.

Angrycat2768 · 15/12/2023 14:15

ThisisgroundcontroltoMajorTom · 15/12/2023 13:53

That’s a very good point MrsLeonFarrell.

I hope some members of the RF thank Harry privately though.

It has proved quite useful to them to have one of their member outside of the institution battling unfair treatment by the press!

Show quote history

Doubt it. They all know that they need to be doing deals with the press and to let them get away with poor behaviour ( in relation to harrassing women who marry into the family, creating a saint and sinner narrative etc) in order for them to avoid scrutiny and in order to keep the whole circus on the road. In terms of keeping his family in power, which he said he wants, Harry is naive at best to think his family do not want this and that they are 'trapped' in this life. They are doing whatever it takes to stay at the top. He is collateral damage. He has committed the ultimate sin (worse than consorting with paedophiles, fraud etc) and spoken about his own experience of his own family.

Original poster
Roussette · 15/12/2023 14:18

Great post @Angrycat2768

Totally agree. And I have linked the latest BylineTimes article/Wootton on the Royals and Dan Wootton thread which is all very relevant given today's ruling.

They are doing whatever it takes to stay at the top. He is collateral damage.
⏫ This.

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Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/12/2023 14:21

MrsLeonFarrell · 15/12/2023 13:50

I think it's also important, whilst celebrating the press being brought to account to resist turning the wider story of Harry and Meghan and the royals into a goodies and baddies narrative. That is how the tabloids want us to think because if they can split people into teams they can run more stories and get more revenue.

This judgement has nothing to say about Meghan, it's about events that happened way before they met. It has nothing to say about the family relationships. This is a judgment about how one newspaper behaved and I think the danger is that the public start getting pulled into the tribal narrative that they are trying to use to deflect and the main issue get forgotten.

Beautifully put, MrsLeonFarrell

Hardly anyone's right or wrong all the time, and no matter who it happens to concern it's perfectly possible to celebrate MGN being found out for what they are without getting all tribal about it

Predictably, however, they're already talking about these issues being "historic", doubtless in an attempt to avoid another Leveson. I'd like to hope it wouldn't work, but since it's unlikely the RF are the only people they have dirt on I'm not getting my hopes up just yet

Cakester · 15/12/2023 14:21

@Angrycat2768 I don't know. If William wanted out of this, would that be possible? He'd be leaving it to his son to deal with. Plus the outrage from the public. Look at what Harry has endured. There is no easy way for anyone to leave. There are personal and public implications that we can't understand.

MrsLeonFarrell · 15/12/2023 14:29

ThisisgroundcontroltoMajorTom · 15/12/2023 13:59

I understand that MrsLeonFarrell and you make very good points but Harry & M have been thrown under the bus so many times and endured so much being on one side of the battle, that I think it would be deeply unfair not to look at the wider issues.

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Absolutely look at wider issues around press accountability, how they choose stories, which stories they ignore, maybe have a debate about how the public interest defence should be defined.

But look at wider issues about the whole Harry and Meghan saga? Not unless you are directly looking at how the press uses information and sources in my opinion.

If you write books and produce TV programmes about your personal life the press are going to build a narrative with that information. To generate clicks the press are going to try to create conflict and sides. Let's have a debate about that mechanism around how media focus works and the profits it produces rather than be rude to each other over who has it worse. I can see that is already happening on social media and I find it frustrating.

MrsFinkelstein · 15/12/2023 14:30

I'm really pleased all the claimants have won, they fully deserved to. The tabloids have been behaving abominably for years.

I'm also thankful for all the previous cases that have gone before (William's included that led to the closure of NOTW and to Leveson), each one has been a stepping stone towards the next. Leveson 2 is very much needed.

It absolutely hasn't changed my opinions about anyone involved. Morgan is a hack and an oaf and always has been. My opinion of H&M has been based on their own behaviour and output over the past 4 years - prior to that i generally defended and supported them. The tabloids have had no impact on my opinion of them.

Angrycat2768 · 15/12/2023 14:31

Cakester · 15/12/2023 14:21

@Angrycat2768 I don't know. If William wanted out of this, would that be possible? He'd be leaving it to his son to deal with. Plus the outrage from the public. Look at what Harry has endured. There is no easy way for anyone to leave. There are personal and public implications that we can't understand.

"Sorry folks. My son is only 10. The Monarchy is outdated and damaging to our family. I dont want this life for him. Therefore, I declare I will be the last Monarch. You lot have 40 years to sort out alternatives" See ya! Im off to live with my millions"

Cakester · 15/12/2023 14:33

Angrycat2768 · 15/12/2023 14:31

"Sorry folks. My son is only 10. The Monarchy is outdated and damaging to our family. I dont want this life for him. Therefore, I declare I will be the last Monarch. You lot have 40 years to sort out alternatives" See ya! Im off to live with my millions"

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He can't do that. If he abdicated, everyone else under him would have to agree to do it. He would still be followed, couldn't get another job and there would be debate at what he could keep, same as Harry...

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/12/2023 14:34

It has proved quite useful to (the RF) to have one of their member outside of the institution battling unfair treatment by the press!

They've had their own "insider" doing that though; don't forget William also got a payout for the Sun/News of the World hacking, and AFAIK the palace made no statement about that either

Maybe someone there thinks it best to let the facts speak for themselves in these cases, though I'm aware that's a bit rich for the place who also lie and twist whenever it suits

EmmaEmerald · 15/12/2023 14:34

ThisisgroundcontroltoMajorTom · 15/12/2023 14:10

He won the ruling today based on only a quarter of the incidents he brought in as evidence so I think it was a resounding win and he was brave not to settle.

Show quote history

this! Well done Harry.

ThisisgroundcontroltoMajorTom · 15/12/2023 14:36

Angrycat2768 · 15/12/2023 14:15

Doubt it. They all know that they need to be doing deals with the press and to let them get away with poor behaviour ( in relation to harrassing women who marry into the family, creating a saint and sinner narrative etc) in order for them to avoid scrutiny and in order to keep the whole circus on the road. In terms of keeping his family in power, which he said he wants, Harry is naive at best to think his family do not want this and that they are 'trapped' in this life. They are doing whatever it takes to stay at the top. He is collateral damage. He has committed the ultimate sin (worse than consorting with paedophiles, fraud etc) and spoken about his own experience of his own family.

Show quote history

Ouch very interesting Angrycats2768. I think Harry was slowly and painfully coming to this realisation over the two year period leading up to his departure, and for a while afterwards, and I think a lot of his “kick back” is related to his sense of betrayal over his perception (or dawning understanding) that the RF were putting favourable press relations over familial ones. But that’s just speculation on my part.

andIsaid · 15/12/2023 14:40

Tontostitis · 15/12/2023 14:06

Harry and Meghan fell under the bus they were trying to drive through their families. They weren't thrown under a bus at all. He lost today on 50% of the cases and recieved £140k settlement after being offered £200k to settle as theyd already admitted guilt. Hopefully he'll donate it to Invictus and start living happily and privately.

Todays winner for missing the point spectaculary is...Tontostits!!
👏👏👏

Angrycat2768 · 15/12/2023 14:41

Cakester · 15/12/2023 14:33

He can't do that. If he abdicated, everyone else under him would have to agree to do it. He would still be followed, couldn't get another job and there would be debate at what he could keep, same as Harry...

Show quote history

I mean , its a moot point because they do whatever it takes to stay in power. For all their handwringing about how they want to live a simple country life they know that their wealth, power and influence comes from the Monarchy. But they could if they wanted to and all agreed to it give notice that its not what they wanted anymore. It is only realistically his line that will be affected long term. If Im honest, I don't have a massive issue with a monarchy per se (we have far more important problems with our constitution) but I do have a problem with the sheer size of the British Monarchy in terms of the amount of land they own, the complete lack of scrutiny ( the exempting themselves from Acts of Parliament is an outrage IMO and should not be allowed to happen) the secrecy surrounding their finances, the fact that the National anthem is not about the nation but entails us all swearing allegiance to one man, when he should be swearing allegiance to us ( as happens with other Constitutional Monarchies and the number of assets they have that are not accessable to us but that we have to pay to maintain, the honours system still being about the British Empire etc etc.

Lockupyourbiscuits · 15/12/2023 14:46

If Harry had settled for 200k isn’t that a bigger win ? Does the mirror settling mean admitting there was hacking ?
I think he was asking for £320 originally ?
What proportion of his fees is he he still liable for ?
Just wondering what the cost of settling v cost of winning is

He was obviously happy to talk about lots of very personal details in order to bring the case which does seem counterproductive

Luckily these are historical cases so don’t affect any recent revelations- Harry is happy for them to be revealed as long as he benefits financially
-fair enough

Shame about the people who were hacked and got nothing- this case wasn’t about stopping hacking - it was about individual retribution/ compensation - hopefully the winners feel vindicated
Living in the public eye is a poisoned chalice so maybe time for Harry to step out of it

Shewaswanton · 15/12/2023 14:50

Like @MrsFinkelstein , I welcome the ruling which is correct and fair.

It changes nothing of what I think about H&M… but yes, the result is what I was hoping for.

Gooseysgirl · 15/12/2023 14:51

I very much doubt it's about the money for Harry.

MrsFinkelstein · 15/12/2023 14:51

I'm absolutely sure the RF will be very pleased at the result. Regardless of any inner family fallout - all of them have suffered at the hands of the Press and most of them have been hacked.

Diana had her landline hacked with the infamous "Squidgygate" tape. Bashir was also able to use this to manipulate her into agreeing to get interviewed.

Charles and Camilla were also very early phone hacking victims with the notorious (& consistently falsely/incorrectly reported on "Tampongate" tape).

William was hacked at least 35 times. Catherine 155 times.

I'm sure Edward, Sophie and the other Royals were also hacked. So I'm sure they'll all be pleased at the result.